Hi,
I am currently working on the subdivision manual at the City of Oceanside and I wanted to see if anyone had any samples of lot line adjustment parcel maps they could attach.
Thanks in advance
Lot Line Adjustment Parcel Maps
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Dave Lindell
- Posts: 298
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- Location: Rancho Mirage
Ummmmm...
Lot line adjustments don't require a Parcel Map.
They can be done via a Certificate of Compliance.
Now would be a good time to get that requirement out of your manual.
They can be done via a Certificate of Compliance.
Now would be a good time to get that requirement out of your manual.
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OceansideGary8818
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:55 pm
Here is our current process:
1. Grant deeds conveying the real property being transferred from one owner to another. These are the portions of real property located between the original lot lines and the newly adjusted lot lines. Only one grant deed is required for this transfer if the owner of record is the same for all parcels involved in the lot line adjustment.
2. Grant deeds describing the new boundaries of the adjusted parcels as a whole. Once the portions of real property located between the original lot lines and the newly adjusted lot lines have been granted, the exterior boundary of each parcel within the lot line adjustment must be rewritten to reflect their newly adjusted boundaries. Only one grant deed is required for the exterior boundaries of the newly adjusted parcels if the owner of record is the same for all parcels involved in the lot line adjustment.
3. A certificate of compliance. The certificate of compliance is filed with the lot line adjustment to give constructive notice that the parcels were legally created.
We intend to keep this process and would like to add a simple lot line adjustment vehicle via a map. It would deletet the needs for the grant deeds and COC. We would like it to be a simple one sheet map with a low fee.
1. Grant deeds conveying the real property being transferred from one owner to another. These are the portions of real property located between the original lot lines and the newly adjusted lot lines. Only one grant deed is required for this transfer if the owner of record is the same for all parcels involved in the lot line adjustment.
2. Grant deeds describing the new boundaries of the adjusted parcels as a whole. Once the portions of real property located between the original lot lines and the newly adjusted lot lines have been granted, the exterior boundary of each parcel within the lot line adjustment must be rewritten to reflect their newly adjusted boundaries. Only one grant deed is required for the exterior boundaries of the newly adjusted parcels if the owner of record is the same for all parcels involved in the lot line adjustment.
3. A certificate of compliance. The certificate of compliance is filed with the lot line adjustment to give constructive notice that the parcels were legally created.
We intend to keep this process and would like to add a simple lot line adjustment vehicle via a map. It would deletet the needs for the grant deeds and COC. We would like it to be a simple one sheet map with a low fee.
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RAM
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OceansideGary8818
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OceansideGary8818
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Berk Blake, PLS CA
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:10 pm
- Location: Buellton, CA
I agree with PLS7730. Banks seem to understand maps much better than the BS we provide for a LLA by grant deed. Wow! You could actually set the corners of the LLA using the PM as a vehicle to complete the LLA, instead of filling up the County Recorder's basement with 8-1/2" x 11"s that don't help much.
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Jim Frame
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land butcher
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"a parcel map is a much superior document (on many levels) to that of a lot line adjustment prepared via a plat and Certificate of Compliance (COC)"
and how much more does the city charge for the PM vs a C/C, I'm guessing a bunch.
And since I don't think anyone does a Record Data PM anymore a field survey is required. So why couldn't a R/S be used instead?
and how much more does the city charge for the PM vs a C/C, I'm guessing a bunch.
And since I don't think anyone does a Record Data PM anymore a field survey is required. So why couldn't a R/S be used instead?
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OceansideGary8818
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- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:55 pm
There are a few interesting considerations when it comes to cost.
The way I see it, there is a simple lot line adjustment parcel map and a complex.
Simple should be cheap, similar if not the same fee as a regular lot line adjustment (heck, maybe even less then the fee for a regular lot line adustment since it is less work) - you can base it on record data or a field survey and you are able to set monuments if you do a field survey - no record of survey required.
A complex lot line adjustment parcel map would be used where you need the full power of the map act in addition to what you are able to do on a simple parcel map - meaning, you need to vacate, dedicate, etc. - that would be a fee in line with a regular parcel map fee.
Since a certificate of compliance is part of processing a lot line adjustment, you wouldn't use a record of survey. But per SMA 66499.35(d), the filing of the parcel map is in itself considered a certificate of compliance. ROS's are also not subject to City discretionary review - a good example of this would be Greg Hopkins comment on the Coastal Development Permit above.
I would love to get a sample of both types, but the simple PM may not exist yet - on a regular lot line adjustment between two owners you are working on/preparing 4 different grant deeds usually with a legal and plat on each and a certificate of compliance with a legal and plat. With either form of the lot line adjustment parcel map you have ONE item to complete, the map (sweet and simple) - and often it would only consist of one sheet.
Anyway, just my 2 cents - trying to figure it out so I can incorporate it.
The way I see it, there is a simple lot line adjustment parcel map and a complex.
Simple should be cheap, similar if not the same fee as a regular lot line adjustment (heck, maybe even less then the fee for a regular lot line adustment since it is less work) - you can base it on record data or a field survey and you are able to set monuments if you do a field survey - no record of survey required.
A complex lot line adjustment parcel map would be used where you need the full power of the map act in addition to what you are able to do on a simple parcel map - meaning, you need to vacate, dedicate, etc. - that would be a fee in line with a regular parcel map fee.
Since a certificate of compliance is part of processing a lot line adjustment, you wouldn't use a record of survey. But per SMA 66499.35(d), the filing of the parcel map is in itself considered a certificate of compliance. ROS's are also not subject to City discretionary review - a good example of this would be Greg Hopkins comment on the Coastal Development Permit above.
I would love to get a sample of both types, but the simple PM may not exist yet - on a regular lot line adjustment between two owners you are working on/preparing 4 different grant deeds usually with a legal and plat on each and a certificate of compliance with a legal and plat. With either form of the lot line adjustment parcel map you have ONE item to complete, the map (sweet and simple) - and often it would only consist of one sheet.
Anyway, just my 2 cents - trying to figure it out so I can incorporate it.
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E_Page
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By law, the jurisdiction can make you relocate improvements and easements, but only so much so as to provide the same level of services to the resulting lots as currently exist for the existing lots.
The problems come in, and it becomes unallowed exactions when the local agencies begin requiring things such as dedicated rights of way where only private road easements existed, additional easements for utilities that currently do not serve the existing parcels, the requirement for the construction of curb, gutter, and sidewalk where there are only gravel shoulders and gravel driveways serving existing lots.
As to the use of a PM, I agree with Greg, it's a great way to go as long as the local agency understands that they do not have the same authority in review as they would for a new subdivision of a parcel, and the process of effecting the LLA by PM does not unduly add to the time or costs in accomplishing the LLA.
If the new lines of the LLA are based upon field survey measurements, then the RS requirement is triggered anyway, so a map will need to be filed regardless. If the parcels are under common ownership, then a PM becomes the better way to accomplish it, assuming the costs are not greater than if a RS is filed instead.
The problems come in, and it becomes unallowed exactions when the local agencies begin requiring things such as dedicated rights of way where only private road easements existed, additional easements for utilities that currently do not serve the existing parcels, the requirement for the construction of curb, gutter, and sidewalk where there are only gravel shoulders and gravel driveways serving existing lots.
As to the use of a PM, I agree with Greg, it's a great way to go as long as the local agency understands that they do not have the same authority in review as they would for a new subdivision of a parcel, and the process of effecting the LLA by PM does not unduly add to the time or costs in accomplishing the LLA.
If the new lines of the LLA are based upon field survey measurements, then the RS requirement is triggered anyway, so a map will need to be filed regardless. If the parcels are under common ownership, then a PM becomes the better way to accomplish it, assuming the costs are not greater than if a RS is filed instead.
Evan Page, PLS
A Visiting Forum Essayist
A Visiting Forum Essayist
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MFORD
Thank you Evan. I was beginning to think no one had read SMA 66412 closely enough to realize the governing body can’t attach conditions to a LLA, except those you pointed out. Reading this thread and considering some of the comments related to the specific knowledge of the process, maybe this is a topic for a “continuing education” seminar. As you pointed out a LLA by PM, if based on a field survey work, is basically a ROS. If the LLA is based on record data a map of any kind is not required and the approval by the governing body can’t be conditiond to require a map.
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Berk Blake, PLS CA
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- Location: Buellton, CA
No, a LLA by PM is not anywhere near a record of survey. The LLA finalized by Parcel Map will have all the required signatures, without having to re-train every lender as to why they are signing 8-1/2" x 11" documents and why only certain officers are allowed to sign the forms that they have no control over, as the forms were prepared by a county or city agency. In addition, a record of survey can not create the newly configured parcels, it can only stake what was recorded in the 8-1/2" x 11" documents, no constructive notice.
Personally, this office spends more time preparing the 8-1/2" x 11" documents, legals, partial reconveyance legals, modified deed of trust legals, etc. then we do preparing a Parcel Map. The recording fees for a LLA by 8-1/2" x 11" easily exceeds the recording fee for a parcel map. The parcel map can set the corners, that would cost additional time and fees in addition to what was recorded for the LLA by 8-1/2" x 11". I sincerely believe that the LLA finalized by PM is superior to the newer procedures.
Personally, this office spends more time preparing the 8-1/2" x 11" documents, legals, partial reconveyance legals, modified deed of trust legals, etc. then we do preparing a Parcel Map. The recording fees for a LLA by 8-1/2" x 11" easily exceeds the recording fee for a parcel map. The parcel map can set the corners, that would cost additional time and fees in addition to what was recorded for the LLA by 8-1/2" x 11". I sincerely believe that the LLA finalized by PM is superior to the newer procedures.
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MFORD
Berk,
The reason for the LLA is to adjust the location of up to four existing lot lines without having to go through the PM procedure and meet possible onerous conditions that have the potential of adding greatly to the cost of the project. The LLA by deed is exempt by statute from conditions and extractions by the local agencies except those that are required “to facilitate the relocation of existing utilities, infrastructure, or easements” (SMA 66412).
Your reference to a LLA by PM is actually a “re-subdivision” of existing lots by a PM. The SMA doesn’t make a distinction between a LLA Parcel Map and a Parcel Map. A LLA by PM may require a tentative map/parcel map procedure which exposes the property owners to potential conditions (public r/w or utility easement dedications and constructing public/private improvements) that may have nothing to do with the reasons for the LLA. As far as the cost of a PM or ROS, in most jurisdictions the fees associated with processing a PM far exceed the cost to review and record a ROS, including preparing LLA deeds.
Also, in both cases, the LLA by deed and by PM, the lenders have to get involved and sign off on the lot configuration adjustments. The form that takes is up to the individual lenders. Maybe the jurisdictions you work in don’t take advantage of the opportunity to extract their pound of flesh for the privilege of allowing subdividing the property by PM. That is not the situation in every jurisdiction.
If I have a choice of LLA by Deed and filing a ROS or a re-subdivision by PM the LLA by Deed wins every time.
The reason for the LLA is to adjust the location of up to four existing lot lines without having to go through the PM procedure and meet possible onerous conditions that have the potential of adding greatly to the cost of the project. The LLA by deed is exempt by statute from conditions and extractions by the local agencies except those that are required “to facilitate the relocation of existing utilities, infrastructure, or easements” (SMA 66412).
Your reference to a LLA by PM is actually a “re-subdivision” of existing lots by a PM. The SMA doesn’t make a distinction between a LLA Parcel Map and a Parcel Map. A LLA by PM may require a tentative map/parcel map procedure which exposes the property owners to potential conditions (public r/w or utility easement dedications and constructing public/private improvements) that may have nothing to do with the reasons for the LLA. As far as the cost of a PM or ROS, in most jurisdictions the fees associated with processing a PM far exceed the cost to review and record a ROS, including preparing LLA deeds.
Also, in both cases, the LLA by deed and by PM, the lenders have to get involved and sign off on the lot configuration adjustments. The form that takes is up to the individual lenders. Maybe the jurisdictions you work in don’t take advantage of the opportunity to extract their pound of flesh for the privilege of allowing subdividing the property by PM. That is not the situation in every jurisdiction.
If I have a choice of LLA by Deed and filing a ROS or a re-subdivision by PM the LLA by Deed wins every time.
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Paul Goebel
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MFORD
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OceansideGary8818
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- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:55 pm
The review process would be no different than submitting a regular lot line adjustment in my opinion. The map, in the case of the City of Oceanside, would be submitted directly to the City Engineer's office and be routed to the planning department for review in the same manner a lot line adjustment would. No tentative map would be required and the City Engineer would sign the mylar, with no legislative approval required unless a discretionary action was triggered (this would be the same for either vehicle).
There is a couple interesting things though with parcel maps.
It would require a preliminary title report and guarantee from all owners, unless they agree to do them combined. I believe the same goes for the tax certificate which would also be required.
Since there are no dedications on a lot line adjustment, Trustees or Beneficiaries can’t sign under the owner’s statement per section 66445 (e) of the map act. Though I don’t see why you couldn’t add a separate cert. where they agree to adjust the boundaries with a signature block.
On a record data map you still need to require that at least one exterior boundary line of the land being subdivided be adequately monumented or referenced before the map is recorded. You could verify this in this in the field prior to recording, I suppose, or show it on the map. But, if you show a monuments position on the record data map it would be a little strange since the map is based on record data.
I am sure a couple other interesting things will come up the more I look at it.
There is a couple interesting things though with parcel maps.
It would require a preliminary title report and guarantee from all owners, unless they agree to do them combined. I believe the same goes for the tax certificate which would also be required.
Since there are no dedications on a lot line adjustment, Trustees or Beneficiaries can’t sign under the owner’s statement per section 66445 (e) of the map act. Though I don’t see why you couldn’t add a separate cert. where they agree to adjust the boundaries with a signature block.
On a record data map you still need to require that at least one exterior boundary line of the land being subdivided be adequately monumented or referenced before the map is recorded. You could verify this in this in the field prior to recording, I suppose, or show it on the map. But, if you show a monuments position on the record data map it would be a little strange since the map is based on record data.
I am sure a couple other interesting things will come up the more I look at it.
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Berk Blake, PLS CA
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:10 pm
- Location: Buellton, CA
Oceanside:
I believe that San Luis Obispo County will allow you to finalize the LLA with a Parcel Map.
Some think that the words Parcel Map mean conditions, I am not suggesting that the LLA be processed as a TPM, just give us the option to finalize the LLA with a Final Map, instead of the onerous paperwork that is currently in vogue and accomplishes so little without the extra expense of filing a record of survey (or corner record).
I believe that San Luis Obispo County will allow you to finalize the LLA with a Parcel Map.
Some think that the words Parcel Map mean conditions, I am not suggesting that the LLA be processed as a TPM, just give us the option to finalize the LLA with a Final Map, instead of the onerous paperwork that is currently in vogue and accomplishes so little without the extra expense of filing a record of survey (or corner record).