Ethics 101

[7702]

I own some property in Oregon which I recently surveyed. One of my adjoiners thinks that he owns my driveway and is causing some problems. He has a buddy who is a retired judge and they have convinced the local authorities (sheriff's dept. and D.A.'s office) that I have no business surveying my own property and say it is a conflict of interest. The agencies also refuse to recognize the right of entry statutes that Oregon has (similar to California's) and have given the green light for the adjoiner to harass me.

Any thoughts?

OR LS 66910

[Berk Blake, PLS CA]

Hire another surveyor and let them either confirm or deny what you have done.

[pls7809]

I agree with Berk. It's unfortunate, but better to be safe than sorry.

[7702]

The property covering my driveway is a separate legal tax lot that was surveyed and monumented almost thirty years ago. FATCO (First American Title Co.) issued a policy on this property when I purchased it several years ago. The adjoiners deed calls to the boundary of my driveway. I recovered the existing monuments and marked the line.

Why should I be held hostage over this? Shouldn't the adjoiner hire a surveyor if he is in disagreement?

[RasterMaster]

I am sure you are a fare and just person but it does have the appearence of conflicting interest. I think Berk has it.

[7702]

I just got off the phone with a surveyor who surveyed for another adjoiner a year ago. He also located the boundaries of my driveway and agrees with my work. He says that he will contact the hostile adjoiner and try to resolve the matter.

Thanks for your replies.

[7702]

Right of entry became an issue when the adjoiner stabbed at me numerous times with a metal fence post while I was setting lath along the property line.

[PLS7393]

I do not see a conflict of interest matter when you are re-tracing the lines of an existing map. Finding the existing monuments on a filed map and marking the line has no financial interest (in my opinion) as outlined in Board Rules
476.(b)(2)

The coincidence is you own the mapped lot, and you are licensed surveyor so you have more knowledge then the average homeowner who has a right to fence/mark your property. I read this somewhere, just can't find it when I need it (now).

I also feel that the burden of proof is on your neighbor to prove the boundary line, and they should hire a land surveyor if they disagree with you finding the existing monuments.

(Good job on contacting the previous surveyor as I began typing before your response.)

I think the electric fence your installing is appropriate too, heheheee!

[E_Page]

You are being held hostage because your neighbor (and I use that term loosely here) is friends of a retired judge, who undoubtedly still has friends and colleagues on the bench, at the DA's office, and with local law enforcement.

It's one of those things that certainly isn't right that they should have such an advantage, but the reality is what it is. It is probably best to hire another surveyor to do the work in this case just to avoid any appearance of impropriety anyway.

If you are certain that a survey will find that the driveway is on your property, and your neighbor is already being pushy and figures he has a judge's influence in his corner, this likely could go to litigation. It would be best to not go into such a battle with the survey having been performed by you. Even if it is technically unassailable, if the findings benefit you, it will be characterized by the other side as unfairly self serving, and will likely be seen as such by others who don't know how to assess the technical aspects.

When you do hire another surveyor, find one who needs to drive a couple hours to your site and has no ties to the county your property is in.

At best, expect no help from local law enforcement or DA. They work with the local judiciary far more often than they will be working with you, and in that light, it behooves them to not upset a long term working relationship over what for them is a minor property dispute (and therefore a civil, rather than criminal matter).

You're in kind of a tough spot. Good luck.


Keith,

This is in OR, so CA Board Rules do not apply, although OR has a code of conduct section as well. But this brings up another question for Mark. You are licensed in OR, right Mark?

[pls7809]

Evan,

I think you missed in the first post that Mark made, where he gave his OR LS number...at the bottom...

Ryan.

[7702]

The hostile adjoiner has convinced the authorities that I have been doing illegal boundary adjustments by moving monuments. He has also contacted all of my neighbors and told them that I am stealing his property. He must be pretty convincing since the D.A.'s office is telling everybody the same story.

Needless to say, I will be consulting with a good attorney before this is over and will take appropriate action to ensure that my civil rights are protected.

[7702]

Evan,

I thought you told me that I could do this work under your Oregon license?

Hee Hee!

[7702]

Not necessarily related to my issue, but I found this example of a conflict of interest on the Wikapedia site:

"Self-policing of any group is also a conflict of interests. If any organization, such as a corporation or government bureaucracy, is asked to eliminate unethical behavior within their own group, it may be in their interest in the short run to eliminate the appearance of unethical behavior, rather than the behavior itself, by keeping any ethical breaches hidden, instead of exposing and correcting them. An exception occurs when the ethical breach is already known by the public. In that case, it could be in the group's interest to end the ethical problem to which the public has knowledge, but keep remaining breaches hidden."

Does that mean our professional practice committees are a conflict of interest?

[E_Page]

I did miss that OR LS #.

Mark, you can use mine at your own peril as I let it lapse several years ago. It is a 4-digit #.

I guess that by that Wiki statement, the Bar and the AMA are both corrupt by definition, eh?

[7702]

A conflict of interest in itself does not prove any misconduct. However, as Evan said, it can certainly create an appearance of impropriety.

So why isn't it a conflict of interest when only one party to a boundary dispute is paying the surveyor to determine the boundary? Seems like the surveyor's opinion could be subject to some bias whether he owns the property or not.

[7702]

Evan,

You shouldn't be so generous with the use of your license. If it's not valid, they'll go after you, not me. :)

[E_Page]

Just watch me put on the Sgt Schulz act.

"I know nothing! Nothing!!"

Beside that, my signature is so scribbly that I can't even duplicate it!

[goodgps]

Isnt there another "code of ethics" for a judge to place initial weight of opinion towards the professional, over the layman ?

I read that somewhere, maybe the really smart guys can dig that up.
Why would a Judge doubt your expertise ?

[7702]

That's a good question Mr. Good.

Welcome to Corruption County, USA.

When the honorable Judge showed up he told me that I had no business doing what I was doing and that he thought about buying my property before I owned it and therefore had a better understanding than I do of where the boundaries are. I told him that I thought a Judge would at least listen to both parties and consider all evidence before reaching a decision. I then requested that he tour my property with me so that I could show him the existing monuments and explain what I did. He refused and apparently convinced the adjoiner to attack me with the metal fence post a short time later. According to witnesses, the honorable Judge stood idly by at a safe distance while the attack occurred. He showed no concern for anyone's safety, including that of his "friend".

Apparently my professional opinion means nothing in this county. If I was born smarter, I would do what Evan did and let my Oregon license expire.

[BeachBum]

I believe in a court that all witnesses are equal, unless you are brought in as an expert witness. That was what I was told as a juror in a criminal case … I was given instructions by the judge that the evidence presented by law enforcement is to be given the same weight as a civilian witness … but then again that was a criminal case.

[land butcher]

Welcome to small town USA. I guess old Oregonites still hate Californians, thats why I hate everyone in and from Oregon.
Too bad you didnt video tape the attacks with the "judge" in the background.

I think I would find a way to aggreviate the adjoiner prior to being in his presence, then have someone video tape his assaults on you.
Not sure of the gun laws there, but you could open carry I would think.

You better take lots of video and pics of the pipes and their location to non removable objects before the neighbor takes them out. And human witness.
Then rent to a pack of trash.

[7702]

LB,

Corruption does not discriminate. It does not care where you're from or where you live. Corruption fears those that are not easily bought or influenced and if you are a "fair and just" person, then you are a target.

For the record, I'm an Oregon resident and am a third or fourth generation native of this Oregon county. My grandmother was born in this county in 1900, so I know it goes back at least that far. The street the county courthouse is on is named after my great uncle, and there is a memorial honoring him on the courthouse lawn. Pretty ironic don't you think?

My mother went to high school in California, but was born in Oregon and graduated from high school in the same town that I did.

I started surveying for a private firm in California while still living in Oregon. Then I went on to work for Caltrans and also my private practice. I consider California my home away from home.

You do have some good ideas about documenting the monument locations in case someone tries to set me up. I do have some video and audio of the incident, but it was taken by a very scared lady with a cell phone, so it's not the best footage. The judge was out of camera range at the time.

As far as using hate to combat hate, I think maybe the world needs a little more love and understanding instead.

I suppose in the long run that truth and justice will prevail. Maybe not in my lifetime, but eventually, as long as someone is willing to take a stand.

[7702]

I sold a portion of my property a couple years ago to a lady that now shares the disputed portion of my driveway. She's supposedly friends with the hostile adjoiner's wife (a realtor) and at my request agreed to speak to her yesterday about their claims. The lady I sold the property just told me that she talked to the realtor and was told that they know that they don't own my driveway and their threat to gate it off was "just a joke". I guess being attacked with a metal fence post was a joke too?

Very funny. I'll give them the opportunity to explain it in court.

[7702]

Since the Sheriff's Office and D.A.'s office wouldn't help me, I turned to the local mental health office and told them what the adjoiner had been doing. They suggested I file a "two-party petition" with the Circuit Court swearing that I believe the adjoiner is suffering from a mental illness. So myself and another neighbor did just that. Now the adjoiner will be subjected to a two-week investigation to determine his mental state. I suppose that's why the sudden turn around with them being truthful. It's probably not a good idea to appear too delusional while someone with a straight jacket is evaluating you. Hey, he said he wanted to play hardball. Hee Hee

[land butcher]

My opinion of Oregonites comes from the experiences of 3 good friends that tried to move there in their "need to have a job" stages of their lives. 2 of them the jobs disappeared when the business saw their license plates. The 3rd bought a triving business and suddenly long time customers went elsewhere and he went broke.
And I have had people from Oregon tell me, "yea, we let you Californiaians visit, but dont forget to go back home and stay there." One of these was a guy working down here, because of no work in OR, but keeping his OR plates, etc.