Filing written communications for benefit of surveying community

[mpallamary]

I wanted to share the attached document with the membership and observers regarding the filing of a "private survey" document. Several years ago I expended considerable time and effort trying to locate some important survey records created by the City of San Diego. To assure that I was as diligent as possible, I filed my original inquiry along with the city's response. Remember that all documents in possession of the city, such as this, are public records and should be available to everyone. In this case, I wanted the record to be clear as to my efforts in the event the document surfaces at a later date. If that were to occur, I might want to reconsider my procedure and decisions. I also wanted those who followed me to see where I went.

As an aside, we cannot do this anymore in San Diego County as the County Surveyor does not accept material like this as he feels they are of no value or benefit to anyone.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Dave Lindell]

You need a new County Surveyor.

[Lee Hixson]

By "private survey document" I gather you're talking about surveys performed by either public agencies or licensed surveyors where a map (Corner Record, Parcel Map, Tract Map) was not filed with the county? (AKA "unrecorded survey")

[dmi]

I disagree with your country surveyor. The same thing could be accomplished via notes. Consider what the goal is. A subsequent surveyor should accept your account. You searched for certain records and the agency responded that they could not find the documents that you requested, That ought to be enough. I had a similar situation here in SF regarding field notes. I asked several times and the City never was able to produce those notes. I included this fact on my map. But it should be fine to scan the letters and include them as a map sheet. The PLSA provides for the preparer to include what they determine is necessary for the intelligent interpretation of the map. I think as a matter of content relating to evidence, I would prefer that you include the letters. ..

[mpallamary]

A private survey document is something other than a conventionally recorded or filed document. I attached the communications as an example. There are certain things that a surveyor should consider and if it is something not normally encountered he/she should have the ability to share that with others. Another example is a declaration or even photographs. The problem for the profession is there is no uniformity in how such material is stored and made accessible. In fact I was contacted by a local company about some unrecorded survey records. They have no place to send them and so they are preparing to throw them out. I am trying to make arrangements to take them.

Here in San Diego we worked very hard to file thousands of unrecorded surveys after the original surveyor died or retired. The current County Surveyor adopted a policy that they mean nothing and are worthless and he will not file them. Other County Surveyors across the state gladly accept them.

The intent of my inquiries and recent polls is to see what the consensus is as this could require a change in state law - something CLSA should be pursuing. I understand there is a committee out there somewhere but nothing has been done or advanced. I am trying to stimulate discussion on this topic.

[dmi]

no need to change the law

[Robert Martin]

In the County I primarily work in the County Surveyor accepts the type of records you are referring to, these records are filed and indexed. Not as a ROS but in some "Parallel" filing system.

[MFORD]

This thread goes to the heart of the “unrecorded maps” question. Are these maps a resource for resolving boundaries? Interestingly enough the situation in San Diego County is opposite from that in most other counties across the state. By and large “private maps” when submitted to county surveyors offices with map review packages are collected, indexed and stored for future use by other surveyors. The problem we see across the state with counties accepting wholesale donations of private records is making storage space available and the manpower required to manage the records. Marin County has recently purchased the archived records of one surveyor with monument preservation funds. They have an arrangement with a nonprofit group to manage the records.

MPallamary made reference to a CLSA committee “out there somewhere.” I am the chairman of that committee. I welcome input/suggestions from anyone on the subject. As far as nothing being done of advanced, that’s not accurate. Michael, I left you a message on another thread on this same subject. So far I Haven’t heard anything from you.

[mpallamary]

Hi Michael, Thank you for your reply and clarification. I finally had the chance to respond to it. My apologies. I have been extremely busy. In any event, please see my comments. Can you let me know who is on the committee?

Thanks!

[Dave Karoly, PLS]

One of the good things about Bryant v Blevins is they blessed and reconfirmed Ernie v Trinity Lutheran Church with incense and sanctus bells and the whole nine yards. Ernie states a property owner acts in good faith when they have a Survey made to mark an uncertain boundary. That is a direct instruction to the Land Surveying profession to seek out evidence of old Surveys which may explain why the boundary is where it is.

Private Records are very good evidence although all that is left may be the physical evidence on the ground.

[mpallamary]

Thanks Dave! I think we are all in sync here. Need to figure out what to do!