LS3814

Dave Karoly, PLS · Post by **Dave Karoly, PLS** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:24 pm

Benjamin Newton Isborn, Deceased. Last expiration mid-2006. Licensed in 1970. Last address in Upper Lake.

Looking for the property corners of my daughter, son-in-law in Hayward. I find a 5/8" rebar with tag wired to it, LS3814 on front corner at R/W. No R/S that I know of. It's on a Deed line. It's within 0.12' of my calculated position which I call good. Anyone know this surveyor?

I found a 1" open iron pipe on rear corner (1914 subdivision lot corner) previously. Today I find an identical open 1" iron pipe on other front corner at R/W, fits about 0.3'. Deed parcel is a triangle. There is a Hal Davis spike and washer on the centerline at lot line about 0.4' from where all his City maps indicate it should be. His 2000 R/S on a nearby lot says found RR spike, not set spike and washer.

land butcher · Post by **land butcher** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:51 pm

"His 2000 R/S on a nearby lot says found RR spike, not set spike and washer"
Probably did find a S&W then was required to set a "tagged" mon, so out went the RR spk and in went the S&W and wasn't noted on the map or what do his legend notes say.

E_Page · Post by **E_Page** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:46 am

There is no requirement to tag a found untagged monument.

Dave Karoly, PLS · Post by **Dave Karoly, PLS** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:05 am

The street pavement (Morse Court in Hayward) looks recent, about the last 10 years. I think the RR spike was probably there in 2000.

I get there on Saturday and ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! there is brand new overlay on Highland Boulevard (not there two months ago) where there is another monument well and some other stuff if I feel the need to go down there and tie it.

The County Surveyor did a bunch of surveying on the lots adjoining to the south in 1926 and he subdivided the lot adjoining on the south on a Survey map (but I doubt they are legal, never conveyed that way, the map is just a diagram). I suspect he set the 1" galvanized iron pipes on the corners of that lot (which shares two corners with my daughter's lot). He just doesn't say so on his map.

If you pull up the 1914 subdivision map it comes with the 1926 county surveyor maps showing the subdivision of several lots in the neighborhood. I have a copy from the CS field book, tiny writing, hard to read. He found a bunch of the original 3x3 lot corners.

BrianSpore · Post by **BrianSpore** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:14 am

Dave,
Morse Court was paved with an overlay in 96.

I am checking with the inspector on why the iron has not been raised on Highland or when it is scheduled to be raised.

as for Hal's map showing a RR Spike found and you find a Spike and Washer, my guess is with is knowledge of the area he knew the RR Spike was supposed to be there and had started drafting his map before doing any field work. Upon doing the field work he found the RR Spike missing and set the Spike and Washer and did not change the map. This is just a guess, but working with him in the past it is an educated guess.

Dave Karoly, PLS · Post by **Dave Karoly, PLS** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:29 am

Brian, thanks. Not a problem, this is kind of a hobby project :-) for my daughter.

There is supposed to be crosses on the manhole rim at Morse/Highland but I couldn't see them. Of course, manhole rims are a bad monument, they get shifted everytime they get raised, etc.

land butcher · Post by **land butcher** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:58 am

E_Page wrote:There is no requirement to tag a found untagged monument.

There sure is done here.

DWoolley · Post by **DWoolley** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:54 pm

Evan Page stated "There is no requirement to tag a found untagged monument."

That is a correct statement (since 1991). The history of a requirement for tagging found monuments has not always been consistent.

In 1974 the Board of Registration for Professional Engineers stated "Sections 8762 and 8772 of the Land Surveyor's, the Board believes, should be interpreted to require that a corner monument when found, used and accepted as a corner by a registered civil engineer or land surveyor should be perpetuated by place his identification tag on the monument if no such tag is affixed at the time he uses the monument. Enforcement of this policy by your personnel on future maps has the support of the Board". This opinion stood until March, 1991.

In 1991, the same Board's attorney, Donald Chang, wrote an opinion (actually wrote the opinion in 1990, published it in 199!-for those that keep track of such things) which read in part "It is thus our opinion that section 8772 does not require a land surveyor to tag an undocumented monument which he or she has used in his or her survey."

The disparity in the practice was recognized by CSAC and they introduced AB 801 which would have amended the Business and Professions Code to require the tagging of any found, unreferenced and unmarked monuments. The bill failed to make it out of committee-which means there was some opposition.

I had a front row seat to the 1990-91 opinion and the package submitted (I assembled part of it) to the Board for consideration-which resulted in their opinion monuments do not need to be tagged.

Land Butcher is 100% correct in his statement. We live and work in the same jurisdiction and every map review will include a request to set and/or tag monuments.

Funny thing, both Evan and Land Butcher have opposite opinions and both are equally correct.

DWoolley

PS Mr. Karoly, I do not intend on hijacking your thread, I will remove this post tomorrow.

Dave Karoly, PLS · Post by **Dave Karoly, PLS** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:19 pm

Dave-

No need to remove your post.

I found two open pipes. I think they are as good as any of the 2nd generation monuments in the area. Right now a guess is the CS set them in 1926. If two more are found at the other corners of the lot he subdivided then that will strengthen that guess. I will plug them if I use them. It is a good practice if practicable.