Doesn't state law still require a signed contract prior to working with a client (unless you have worked with them prior)?
Just received a call from a new clients (two adjoining neighbors) who signed a contract and paid me a retainer stating they now have an issue. My clients said they had an estimate from another surveyor, but never signed a contract with them. Yesterday a two man survey crew showed up to the site to collect data and my client thought the crew was mine, and they did the work.
This all came about cause I contacted them to inform them of my schedule for field work this upcoming weekend. So now I have a contract, but another surveyor showed up for the field work without a signed contract, what's up with that? Luckily I am busy enough not to worry about it and gladly will return there retainer. They even said they would pay me for my time to meet with them at the site and the time I spent on their project.
What is the appropriate (professional) action for me to do in this case? Do I contact the other surveyor and inquire what they are doing, and send them a copy of my signed contract? I don't really want to turn this into a BRPLSG complaint, but then the other firm is not acting appropriately either.
Just some food for thoughts, and see what others have (or would do in this case).
No Contract Surveying?
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PLS7393
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No Contract Surveying?
Keith Nofield, Professional Land Surveying
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bryanmundia
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Keith,
8759. Written Contracts
(a) A licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer authorized to practice land surveying shall use a written contract when contracting to provide professional services to a client pursuant to this chapter. The written contract shall be executed by the licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer and the client, or his or her representative, prior to the licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer commencing work, unless the client knowingly states in writing that work may be commenced before the contract is executed. (Emphasis Added) The written contract shall include, but not be limited to, all of the following:
(1) A description of the services to be provided to the client by the licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer.
(2) A description of any basis of compensation applicable to the contract, and the method of payment agreed upon by the parties.
(3) The name, address, and license or certificate number of the licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer, and the name and address of the client.
(4) A description of the procedure that the licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer and the client will use to accommodate additional services.
(5) A description of the procedure to be used by any party to terminate the contract.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) Professional land surveying services rendered by a licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer for which the client will not pay compensation.
(2) A licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer who has a current or prior contractual relationship with the client to provide professional services pursuant to this chapter, and that client has paid the surveyor or engineer all of the fees that are due under the contract.
(3) If the client knowingly states in writing after full disclosure of this section that a contract which complies with the requirements of this section is not required.
(4) Professional services rendered by a licensed land surveyor or a registered civil
engineer to any of the following:
(A) A professional engineer licensed or registered under Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6700).
(B) A land surveyor licensed under this chapter.
(C) An architect licensed under Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 5500).
(D) A contractor licensed under Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 7000).
(E) A geologist or a geophysicist licensed under Chapter 12.5 (commencing with Section 7800).
(F) A manufacturing, mining, public utility, research and development, or other industrial corporation, if the services are provided in connection with or incidental to the products, systems, or services of that corporation or its affiliates.
(G) A public agency.
So if any of section (b) applies a contract is not necessary. Emphasis added to section (b).
8759. Written Contracts
(a) A licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer authorized to practice land surveying shall use a written contract when contracting to provide professional services to a client pursuant to this chapter. The written contract shall be executed by the licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer and the client, or his or her representative, prior to the licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer commencing work, unless the client knowingly states in writing that work may be commenced before the contract is executed. (Emphasis Added) The written contract shall include, but not be limited to, all of the following:
(1) A description of the services to be provided to the client by the licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer.
(2) A description of any basis of compensation applicable to the contract, and the method of payment agreed upon by the parties.
(3) The name, address, and license or certificate number of the licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer, and the name and address of the client.
(4) A description of the procedure that the licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer and the client will use to accommodate additional services.
(5) A description of the procedure to be used by any party to terminate the contract.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) Professional land surveying services rendered by a licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer for which the client will not pay compensation.
(2) A licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer who has a current or prior contractual relationship with the client to provide professional services pursuant to this chapter, and that client has paid the surveyor or engineer all of the fees that are due under the contract.
(3) If the client knowingly states in writing after full disclosure of this section that a contract which complies with the requirements of this section is not required.
(4) Professional services rendered by a licensed land surveyor or a registered civil
engineer to any of the following:
(A) A professional engineer licensed or registered under Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6700).
(B) A land surveyor licensed under this chapter.
(C) An architect licensed under Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 5500).
(D) A contractor licensed under Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 7000).
(E) A geologist or a geophysicist licensed under Chapter 12.5 (commencing with Section 7800).
(F) A manufacturing, mining, public utility, research and development, or other industrial corporation, if the services are provided in connection with or incidental to the products, systems, or services of that corporation or its affiliates.
(G) A public agency.
So if any of section (b) applies a contract is not necessary. Emphasis added to section (b).
Bryan Mundia
PLS 9591, Orange County, California
PLS 9591, Orange County, California
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PLS7393
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Thank you for telling me what I already know, and remember this when you finally sit for the exam. With all the time your spending on the forum, you should be an expert in no time, and you will be tested!bryanmundia wrote:Keith,
8759. Written Contracts
Keith Nofield, Professional Land Surveying
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bryanmundia
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If you already know it then why are you asking the question? Seems pretty straight forward to me.PLS7393 wrote:Thank you for telling me what I already know, and remember this when you finally sit for the exam. With all the time your spending on the forum, you should be an expert in no time, and you will be tested!
Ask the homeowners if they signed a contract, if not, turn the other surveyor into the board.
No need for the attitude Keith. I have been nothing but respectful to you.
Bryan Mundia
PLS 9591, Orange County, California
PLS 9591, Orange County, California
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PLS7393
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Bryan,
With due respect did you read the original post? "What is the appropriate (professional) action for me to do in this case?"
It appears you wanted to jump in, and quickly locate the appropriate section in the B&P Codes? Being a LSIT you should be learning and absorbing what is being said, rather I see you want to jump in on all threads. I like your energy, but referencing a code does not do you or anyone justice. I value all opinions, but it is hard to take professional advise from a LSIT.
Are you working, and does your boss know how much time your spending on the CLSA forum, lol? I'm sure he has given you a job number to allocate your time for this training.
With due respect did you read the original post? "What is the appropriate (professional) action for me to do in this case?"
It appears you wanted to jump in, and quickly locate the appropriate section in the B&P Codes? Being a LSIT you should be learning and absorbing what is being said, rather I see you want to jump in on all threads. I like your energy, but referencing a code does not do you or anyone justice. I value all opinions, but it is hard to take professional advise from a LSIT.
Are you working, and does your boss know how much time your spending on the CLSA forum, lol? I'm sure he has given you a job number to allocate your time for this training.
Keith Nofield, Professional Land Surveying
PLS 7393
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bryanmundia
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I am off the clock at this moment, trying to absorb some knowledge. As for your post, go back and read your first question and tell me if I answered it?
I thought I would start with that and see if your additional inquiries would change or be restated.
Now, I must leave my current surveying job (which is part time) and go to my current full time job (not survey related).
Take care Keith, I will check back later if I have the time.
I thought I would start with that and see if your additional inquiries would change or be restated.
Now, I must leave my current surveying job (which is part time) and go to my current full time job (not survey related).
Take care Keith, I will check back later if I have the time.
Bryan Mundia
PLS 9591, Orange County, California
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Warren Smith
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rmaher
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Tension so high that it bleeds over into practice based threads?
Forum posts, e-mail, texts ... sometimes hard to know how the written words should be read. Take for example the seemingly (to me) rhetorical question: "Doesn't state law still require a signed contract prior to working with a client (unless you have worked with them prior)?"
Does [it] not? Why no, Keith, it does, require it; here is a reference...
By the way, sometimes I think I am witty, and people actually find it offensive, or possibly offensive, I don't know...
There can probably be as many appropriate professional ways to work through your scenario as calls "off" surveyors can apply to a found monument.
Since you're asking for opinions I'll offer:
Offer to the client that you'll go along with their decision to work with the other professional or you. Explain to them what you already know; that our profession has strict requirements for written and executed contracts, for their protection, and provide some e-mail links to the Board site about hiring a surveyor, contracts, etc. Suggest that they should obtain a conforming contract from this other surveyor at this time if they choose to continue with them.
Decline with gratitude the offer for compensation if they continue with others, not wanting to profit from the unfortunate situation.
Contact the other surveying firm and inform them politely what occurred and that having contracts executed would likely have avoided the confusion. Their response to you might surprise or spur you to consider other action due to professional concern.
Cherry on top?: Offer to the client that since you are so familiar with the site, and they unwittingly ended up working with someone other than their choice of professional, you'll extend a gratis review of the submitted work product (also inform the other surveyor that this will be occurring in that case).
Education, compliance, protection ... all good professional concerns covered.
Forum posts, e-mail, texts ... sometimes hard to know how the written words should be read. Take for example the seemingly (to me) rhetorical question: "Doesn't state law still require a signed contract prior to working with a client (unless you have worked with them prior)?"
Does [it] not? Why no, Keith, it does, require it; here is a reference...
By the way, sometimes I think I am witty, and people actually find it offensive, or possibly offensive, I don't know...
There can probably be as many appropriate professional ways to work through your scenario as calls "off" surveyors can apply to a found monument.
Since you're asking for opinions I'll offer:
Offer to the client that you'll go along with their decision to work with the other professional or you. Explain to them what you already know; that our profession has strict requirements for written and executed contracts, for their protection, and provide some e-mail links to the Board site about hiring a surveyor, contracts, etc. Suggest that they should obtain a conforming contract from this other surveyor at this time if they choose to continue with them.
Decline with gratitude the offer for compensation if they continue with others, not wanting to profit from the unfortunate situation.
Contact the other surveying firm and inform them politely what occurred and that having contracts executed would likely have avoided the confusion. Their response to you might surprise or spur you to consider other action due to professional concern.
Cherry on top?: Offer to the client that since you are so familiar with the site, and they unwittingly ended up working with someone other than their choice of professional, you'll extend a gratis review of the submitted work product (also inform the other surveyor that this will be occurring in that case).
Education, compliance, protection ... all good professional concerns covered.
Take care,
Rich
Rich
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7702
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I officially "re-membered" myself today and am proud to rejoin the ranks of CLSA.Do not demean, harass, or embarrass others.
In attempts to represent myself, my profession, and CLSA in the most positive light, I reviewed the forum posting rules prior to posting.
In doing so, I stumbled accross the above requirement.
Can someone please clarify whether it applies to all forum users, or just a select group?
Thank you.
Mark Moore, LS 7702
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Mike Hartley
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I concur with Rich. His suggestions are professional in all aspects.rmaher wrote:Tension so high that it bleeds over into practice based threads?
Forum posts, e-mail, texts ... sometimes hard to know how the written words should be read. Take for example the seemingly (to me) rhetorical question: "Doesn't state law still require a signed contract prior to working with a client (unless you have worked with them prior)?"
Does [it] not? Why no, Keith, it does, require it; here is a reference...
By the way, sometimes I think I am witty, and people actually find it offensive, or possibly offensive, I don't know...
There can probably be as many appropriate professional ways to work through your scenario as calls "off" surveyors can apply to a found monument.
Since you're asking for opinions I'll offer:
Offer to the client that you'll go along with their decision to work with the other professional or you. Explain to them what you already know; that our profession has strict requirements for written and executed contracts, for their protection, and provide some e-mail links to the Board site about hiring a surveyor, contracts, etc. Suggest that they should obtain a conforming contract from this other surveyor at this time if they choose to continue with them.
Decline with gratitude the offer for compensation if they continue with others, not wanting to profit from the unfortunate situation.
Contact the other surveying firm and inform them politely what occurred and that having contracts executed would likely have avoided the confusion. Their response to you might surprise or spur you to consider other action due to professional concern.
Cherry on top?: Offer to the client that since you are so familiar with the site, and they unwittingly ended up working with someone other than their choice of professional, you'll extend a gratis review of the submitted work product (also inform the other surveyor that this will be occurring in that case).
Education, compliance, protection ... all good professional concerns covered.
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land butcher
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Sounds like the real estate business.
Defund govt
To fully fund govt first the national debt would have to be paid. The US Govt is $18 TRILLION in debt, using 350 million people in the USA it would require $51,000 from every man, woman and child to pay it off. And that's just the Federal debt. Did you write your check yet?
To fully fund govt first the national debt would have to be paid. The US Govt is $18 TRILLION in debt, using 350 million people in the USA it would require $51,000 from every man, woman and child to pay it off. And that's just the Federal debt. Did you write your check yet?