I originally posed this question in November. LLA or PM?
Client owns 4 lots (17-20) in old subdivision (pre 1900) and wants a LLA to create 2 lots. There is one existing house. There is no documentation that the lots have been merged per SMA.
After meeting with city planner (National City)we were told LLA was OK. (didn't get it in writing). Client demolished portion of existing house to comply with zoning and setback requirements. Now the City changed their mind and want a Tentative and PM
My stance: Client owns 4 contiguous lots and LLA will not create new lot.
City's stance: the 4 lots are considered as one and to split them will create a new lot so PM is required.
Who's right?
I recall that there were some recent court cases on issues similar to this.
Any help or opinions are appreciated.
TIB
LLA or PM?
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land butcher
- Posts: 1615
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- Location: calif
How were they taxed?
Doesn't surprise me that the agency changed their mind, esp when they are seeing additional revenue. Even in writing you would probably have to sue them and that's costly too.
Doesn't surprise me that the agency changed their mind, esp when they are seeing additional revenue. Even in writing you would probably have to sue them and that's costly too.
Defund govt
To fully fund govt first the national debt would have to be paid. The US Govt is $18 TRILLION in debt, using 350 million people in the USA it would require $51,000 from every man, woman and child to pay it off. And that's just the Federal debt. Did you write your check yet?
To fully fund govt first the national debt would have to be paid. The US Govt is $18 TRILLION in debt, using 350 million people in the USA it would require $51,000 from every man, woman and child to pay it off. And that's just the Federal debt. Did you write your check yet?
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TIB
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:56 pm
Taxed as one
All 4 lots are under one APN. Does that matter? Not only City gets more revenue but more control via expanded conditions of approval
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TIB
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:56 pm
Evan & WC..Can you elaborate..
with an explanation (quick/simple/basic/EZ) as to why these issues are important and how/why different previous facts/records might result in different possible outcome.
At this point all I know is Sub Map is from 1890's, Client bought land in 2011 from previous owner as 4 lots (lots 17-20 map 123) with one APN. I'm not sure (yet) but it's unlikely that previous owner was original owner.
Can anyone provide a link or direct me to the "must read" court cases mentioned by WC?
Thanks
TIB
At this point all I know is Sub Map is from 1890's, Client bought land in 2011 from previous owner as 4 lots (lots 17-20 map 123) with one APN. I'm not sure (yet) but it's unlikely that previous owner was original owner.
Can anyone provide a link or direct me to the "must read" court cases mentioned by WC?
Thanks
TIB
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T. S. Higgins
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:08 pm
The single APN may be informative, but it's no real indication as to the number of legal lots, only how the owners were taxed.
If you can go through the old assessor's maps, you may be able to find information there regarding seperate ownership of the parcel(s). Sometimes the older maps bear ownership information, and multiple APNs can indicate the lots were once part of a seperate conveyance. Usually a single parcel would not be split into multiple APNs unless there is a good reason (Renting a portion, etc).
In any case there's a lot of research to be done. A chain of title would be a good starting point, but remember that depending on the antiquity of the conveyances the title officer may not go back far enough. It might be up to you to get into the grantee/grantor indexes and turn up something.
If you can go through the old assessor's maps, you may be able to find information there regarding seperate ownership of the parcel(s). Sometimes the older maps bear ownership information, and multiple APNs can indicate the lots were once part of a seperate conveyance. Usually a single parcel would not be split into multiple APNs unless there is a good reason (Renting a portion, etc).
In any case there's a lot of research to be done. A chain of title would be a good starting point, but remember that depending on the antiquity of the conveyances the title officer may not go back far enough. It might be up to you to get into the grantee/grantor indexes and turn up something.
Tristan S. Higgins, PLS
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subman
- Posts: 453
- Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:22 pm
- Location: Ventura County
When was the house built? Any evidence on the building permit records as to what lot or lots were considered in issuing the building permit. If only one or two of the four lots are identified on the building permit, you may want to request a Certificate of Compliance. They are obligated to issue one without conditions.
Dennis Hunter, PLS & PE
Simi Valley, CA
Simi Valley, CA