DEATH OF THE COUNTY SURVEYOR TITLE

[PLS_8586]

I'm curious how many CLSA members are aware of the trend across California to eliminate the title of County Surveyor by replacing the position with a Manager III or County Surveyor like title? The trend is growing and Counties are changing their charters to circumvent budget problems and taking control over Survey Divisions. What measures could CLSA and it members take to prevent the growth of this trend?

[Ian Wilson]

Let's be a little clearer regarding the topic and less reactionary.

The County Surveyor position is required by State Statute.

The counties cannot get rid of the County Surveyor.

They CAN reduce the "rank" of the CS to reduce the pay grade required for the position. They cannot reduce the requirements for the CS in terms of being authorized to oversee and comment on the professional functions of Land Surveyors.

Even the LA situation is not removing the CS from the picture, just changing who they believe can fill the role.

However, in the final analysis, the CS is NOT a superior rank to ANY surveyor licensed to practice by the State of California. The CS designation does NOT confer any greater authority than that conferred by the State Statutes in terms of organizational function. It does NOT confer higher authority in terms of professional decision making.

[BoundaryMan]

Mr. Wilson,
Very well written post.
This message has to be conveyed to all CS accross this state.

[PLS_8586]

Thanks Ian for your input and clarifications, I do not believe I'm being reactionary at all! Yes, what I'm saying is that the Counties are re-wording the Title of County Surveyor and it seems to lesson the importance of the position (public perspective) or portray a less important role in the function of government surveyor. Yes, I agree with your statement: "the CS is NOT a superior rank to ANY surveyor licensed to practice by the State of California". Maybe the State Statute needs to be ammended or strengthened in wording to state that the Title of County Surveyor must be stated as such "The County Surveyor". I, as well as others in Land Surveying would like to continue to keep the profession of Land Surveyors elevated at the same public perspective as doctors, judges, lawyers and alike!

[dmi]

Under the first Charter of San Francisco the County Surveyor was an elective position. Some of the folks who held that office also were Surveyor Generals for the State of Calfornia at various other times. I believe that Willian Eddy was one such person.

Under the elective county surveyor era, ALL lot surveys, large lot subdivisions, street monumentation were performed by the County surveyors. The County Surveyor charged and collected fees and this is how the office and the activities of the office and the County Surveyor's salary was paid.

The County Surveyor era ended in 1900 when the new charter was approved and the office was folded into the office of the City Engineer. The Division of Surveys was created and headed by the Assistant City Engineer. At the time there was no requirement for licensure, as an engineers, for the engineer running the department, as City Engineer .

The Assistant City Engineer had to be licensed to run the Divisions of surveys.

From this bit of history we can see how a once powerful public officer was re-shuffled into a bureaucracy and became less important in rank and therefore less able to effectively execute the requirements of a county surveyor.

[PLS7393]

The trend you talk about is an attempt to reduce the budget, and hire consultants to act as a CS. This is often the retired CS who continues the role as a consultant. There are several counties moving in this direction and they have discussed this at The County Engineers Association of California (CEAC). Wouldn't you guess that they see nothing wrong with this to satisfy the CS position per State Statute.

The counties are saving money this way by means of not having to pay into a retirement plan and benefits, but spending more on the consultant fees, and the retiree is already collecting full retirement benefits. In the long run the counties are spending more, but management isn't bright enough to see the light. You need to realize as the profession of surveying is gaining speed in some directions, the respect of a CS is diminishing internally within some organizations. The organizations with a solid surveying foundation do not have any problems.

I see the trend of duel licensure (LS & PE) to become the next trend of individuals holding the position of Director and CS. It will also be interesting if continuing education becomes mandatory for land surveyors, and will civil engineers have to follow our footsteps thereafter?

[Scott]

Dane,
I believe at least one of our Counties (up in th NW corner of the State maybe) still has an elected County Surveyor. Anybody out there know for sure?

[Ian Wilson]

Scott:

The only county in the state that still has an elected COunty Surveyor is our very own Rich Briner, County Surveyor in and for El Dorado County!

[Scott]

Thanks Ian,
You are probably where I heard we still had one.

[Lee Hixson]

I think the "trend" referred to in the first post also fits Colusa County. When they advertised for a new CS position a few months back, the job description included significant "engineering" requirements. It was pretty obvious they were shopping for either an LS/CE combo licensee, or a pre-82 engineer.

The job description for their opening fit this thread to a "T".

[land butcher]

Not many pre 82 engineers practicing anymore.