R/S required (Yes or No??) see map

acrefind · Post by **acrefind** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:02 am

Hello,

My name is Andrew. Currently Iâ€™m an LSIT and studying to sit in for my LS. Iâ€™m confused of when is it the responsibility of an LS to file a R/S upon the completion of a TPM that was never approved nor recorded. The TPM attached was provided by an owner nearby a project we were researching that may affect our boundary analysis. It has also been said that this TPM was cancelled and no PM was to be completed.

My Questions are:

1. Per PLS act 8726, doesnâ€™t this survey constitute a survey produced by a licensed land surveyor? And if so, since TPM was never approved nor recorded, shouldnâ€™t a R/S be required at minimal per PLS act 8762?

2. Noticed also some notes on TPM that insist that all data was complied from record data. Is this a way out from filing a R/S even though a physical survey was performed and monuments were located and tied to improvements (scale: 1â€=10â€™)?

Please provide facts and not opinions as this may become difficult for me to distinguish both thoughts. Thank you for your professional advice.

Performing Surveyor was erased due to professional opinions.
Thank You

PDF (attached "Revised")

Stephen Johnson · Post by **Stephen Johnson** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:20 am

Ask Mr. Woolley what he thinks about it. I do believe he peruses this board.

btaylor · Post by **btaylor** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:26 am

Did you ask Mr. Woolley if he wanted that posted? Seems a little rude to do that if not.

pls7809 · Post by **pls7809** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:39 am

I'm goig to echo the comments of the previous replies:

Did you call and ask Dave Woolley and talk to him? His phone number is on the plan sheet.

acrefind · Post by **acrefind** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:56 am

My goal is to get facts correct. As we all know it helps to get other professionals involved that may have better answers to support my thinking process rather then one individual surveyors point of view.

Thanks

pls7809 · Post by **pls7809** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:24 pm

The reason I asked the question that I posed, is that Mr. Woolley may have your answer. Maybe an RS is "in review".

Not knowing anything else about this, LS Act 8762 (b)(4) and (b)(5) may apply. But that's only an opinion (not professional) based on seeing one unsigned document, because I have no professional involvement in this project.

Regardless of the purpose of the post, the fact is that you, a semi-anonymous poster and non-licensed person, have called out a licensed surveyor on a public forum with their full name. It is not against any written rule that I know of, but as a professional courtesy, you could have asked the same questions without calling Mr. Woolley out in your post and you could have redacted the portions of the map identifying him. It seems a little obvious you may have some kind of bone to pick with him. It would be more appropriate to send the specific question, with Mr. Woolley's name attached, to the LA PPC (David Hobbs). Ironically, Mr. Woolley has written about the PPC in an article here:

http://www.lsacts.com/documents/The%20P ... 070809.pdf

Jim Frame · Post by **Jim Frame** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:32 pm

Here's a fact: it's unprofessional to slam a colleague in a public forum without attempting to first resolve the matter with him. The "just the facts" thing strikes me as disingenuous.

Ask Mr. Wooley about it. If you're not satisfied with his response, come back for other opinions.

.

Dave Karoly, PLS · Post by **Dave Karoly, PLS** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:57 pm

My answer is no, I don't see an R/S being required by that map.

bruce hall · Post by **bruce hall** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:56 pm

TENTATIVE parcel map!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't care who drafted the thing. The purpose of this map is to get some kind approval from the governing agency for a division of land.

The purpose of the survey is really important in determining what laws have to be followed.

If this was my map I would state that "A field survey was performed but the establishment or reestablishment of lines or points did not take place. And if that doesn't take place, then why do I have to record my survey?"

"I can survey the whole state of California, but until I start establishing line or points on paper or in the field, I don't have to file a thing." At least I would like to think so.

pls7809 · Post by **pls7809** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:58 pm

Absolutely true Bruce. Did not think about that previously.

sako · Post by **sako** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:22 pm

A TPM doesn't get recorded. It's merely a proposal of how the land gets subdivided. Even a CE can prepare a TPM.

btaylor · Post by **btaylor** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:45 pm

Yes but if the boundary is resolved, and existing boundary consists of a line(s) not shown on a record map, then you have the quandary.

I think a lot of us have had tentative maps that take awhile to come to fruition that technically renders us in violation of the LS Act at a certain point. In fact, I do not see how one can prepare a tentative map without resolving the boundary. The local agencies want a lot of specifics about lot width, areas, etc, you can screw things up if you did not resolve it ahead of time.

pls7809 · Post by **pls7809** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:20 pm

You should see a tentative map I just got my hands on. No stamp or signature by anyone. All distances are shown to the nearest foot with +/- next to it and no bearings anywhere to find on it. Prepared by an Engineering Company, no specific name on it. This is approved with COA's issued by the agency. I'm preparing the final PM from this.

To me, the tentative map is a planning document. The Final Map is the official survey.

Lee Hixson · Post by **Lee Hixson** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:36 am

Then there's the possibility that, in the course of your research and field survey for the tentative map, you uncover a material discrepancy. Then your client sits on the TPM.

Double_Proportion · Post by **Double_Proportion** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:38 am

If the project has been officially abandoned by the client then an ROS would be required showing at the very least the easerly right of way line of Grisham Avenue.

8726 (c) (easterly right of way of Grisham Avenue)
8762 (b)(1) (the use of the no reference monument at the northwest corner of the block.

The distance calls to the 100th around the perimeter boundary could be considered establishment (CE's avoid this by the +/- calls to the nearest foot), especially by a layman, whether 8762(b)(4) is triggered would probably turn into a lengthy topic full of opinions that I am not legally entitled a professional opinion on.

That being said Acrefind, as people have pointed out above, bringing someone else's plan (with or without information blacked out) into a public forum environment is completely inappropriate and poses a serious question of your ethics and motives. This request for facts you presented could have easily been asked with a detailed description of the matters shown on the plan, after inquiring with the licensed individual who prepared the plan or you simply could have reviewed the PLS Act.

One LSIT to another.

surveysays · Post by **surveysays** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:31 am

Acrefind

The Tentative Parcel Map is based upon record data. The Surveyorâ€™s note on the Tentative states as much. A Tentative Map is approximate only, I donâ€™t see how itâ€™s possible to base one upon on a field survey that is yet to be recorded?

You canâ€™t file an R/S unless you perform a field survey. But that doesn't matter - see PLS act section 8765 (c) -Record of Survey exemptions.-
(c) When a map is in preparation for recording or shall have been recorded under the provisions of the Subdivision Map Act.

Thus all subdivision maps are exempt from the R/S requirement, even if they never get recorded.

California Surveyors Forums

R/S required (Yes or No??) see map

R/S required (Yes or No??) see map

This thing is a

An R/S is never required