Encroachment Permit to Survey

[LA Stevens]

Has anyone heard of a City or County requiring an Encroachment Permit to survey?

[Dave Lindell]

La Habra Heights instituted that. The encroachment permit was something like $107, but to get one you had to have a business license in that city, too. Those were something like $125.

Since City Hall (a makeshift school room) was closed on Fridays I always did my surveys there on Fridays and Saturdays.

I finally gave up on that city when they paved over all the control points that had been there since 1931. They even had the audacity to request surveyors tie them out for free! If they wanted to be a city so bad, they should have thought through the ramifications of being a real city. It's my understanding that they have the highest permit fees in the nation.

The nail in the coffin was when the County of Los Angeles turned loose an inept party chief to establish control and all he could do was turn record angles and go record distances to establish points, all the while ignoring found sideline evidence for control. He did show how he missed the found points though. His work could be "reverse engineered" to establish the original points.

Before his work could be checked (and caught) the county was hit with the infamous Proposition 13 and practically the entire survey division was laid off.

His work resides in Field Books numbered in the 4000's (but there is some good stuff in that series, too).

[btaylor]

Oh no will this be a new trend for the local agencies to get some more dough?

[land butcher]

They have been charging that for at least 10 years and so far no one is following suit on the encrochment permit, but technically every city has a ordinance that requires anyone doing business in their city to have a business license.

Some cities like El Segundo require each vehicle to have a separate license.

Anaheim is pretty stiff, in the mid 1990s a BL for const surveying on a private project was $1800 and change. They charge per business, per professional, per vehicle, and IIRC per employee.

Most of the time you are not bothered unless a code enforcement officer checks you. They catch most by requesting a list of subs when a building/grading permit is issued.

Adelanto has code enforcement officers driving around issuing citations for having your trash cans visible from the street. Yep they have a code against that.

Right now every city is doing everything it can to steal money from us citizens. Seems they can't reduce workforce like private business can.

[dmi]

LB has the experience that in the face of all reality to the contary that local agencies remain bloated and over staffed. Having worked in various locations up and down the state, I have experienced just the opposite. Staffs are slashed everywhere and fees just keep on going up. We now have four day work weeks in some places and when the oldtimers retire, replacement are not hired. Some places charge for counter time, when you are doing research. Some places won't allow walk in research, even when all their records are not online.

There is NO FREE LUNCH. Nobody wants higher taxes and fees,but we have to pay for the services we want.

[Stephen Johnson]

"Some places won't allow walk in research, even when all their records are not online."


That is against black letter law in several states and it may be in California. They are after all PUBLIC records. It bears researching.

[Jim Frame]

Around here the public agencies have cut a lot of staff, too. The fly in the ointment is that during the boom the agencies raised salaries and benefits just like the private sector did. What the agency bosses (i.e. elected officials) conveniently overlooked is that when the economy turns south the private sector not only sheds jobs, it also cuts compensation. The latter pretty much never happens in public agencies, where compensation operates like a ratchet -- it goes up at the drop of a hat, but it rarely goes down.

Add in the seniority system common to just about every agency, and you end up having to squeeze the salaries of the highest-paid employees, who tend to be clustered in the management ranks, into a dramatically reduced budget. How do you do that? Easy: lay off the underlings! Net effect: fewer people to do the work, higher average compensation, and markedly reduced service levels.

Oh, and that defined-benefit public-agency retirement package that was made to look so affordable via accounting sleight-of-hand during the boom? It doesn't look so affordable now -- in fact, it's an albatross necklace -- but it's also a nearly iron-clad commitment. I don't blame any agency employee for insisting that it be honored; I'd do the same thing were I in their shoes. But as a taxpayer, I'm feeling kind of fleeced at the moment.

.

[Dylan Kolstad]

Has anyone worked in the City of Cloverdale (sonoma county) and been charged business license tax/fee?

I went into the City earlier this year with the misguided intention of getting help with research into survey / right of way mapping, and instead got charged a license tax. Having never been charged this tax except where my business is located, and not having the time to fight over it, I didn't object. It amounted to $84, supposedly proportion of a full year fee given that it was in June. I only worked two days in Cloverdale this year. Now they want a renewal of $112.50 for 2013...

The City's response back in August was as follows. I was going to let it go as the time involved with chasing after this $84 is not justifiable financially, but it still bugs me if this was charged improperly, as seems to be the case from that CLSA magazine issue 139, though the B&P code could be read multiple ways.

Thanks,

Dylan Kolstad, LS 8152


Thank you for responding so quickly. Although it is true that you may only do business for a very short time, the opportunity to continue to do business for the remainder of the year is present once you have paid the tax. That in itself represents a value for the tax paid. I’m sure you would agree that if we had each business calculate an amount due based on time spent within Cloverdale we could be facing similar requests or should be asking for considerably more from local businesses on that basis. It could be said that the comparison of proportion could be also be the amount of tax collected compared to the actual revenue received for the work within the jurisdiction. The word “activity” does not directly tie to time. There are some businesses that may come to town for less than one day and as stated before there are some that never leave. As you can see this could be difficult to interpret, but, in any case we need to be consistent and should not refund a portion of the tax to you based on time unless we computed the tax for other businesses using the same methodology.
Sincerely,

Diana G. Edwards
Finance & Accounting Manager
City of Cloverdale

[bruce hall]

"Has anyone worked in the City of Cloverdale (sonoma county) and been charged business license tax/fee?"

I have not worked in Cloverdale so I can't answer, but maybe those of you out there who have worked in Cloverdale could help answer the question.

[VANCE]

I have worked in cloverdale and never got a business license. I have one for mendocino county which is where my office is located. My question would be were you doing work for the city of cloverdale or a private party? In the future you can contact me for any info you might need. I used to live in cloverdale and worked there for over 10 years.

[Anthony Maffia]

I was at one SF Bay Area company for almost 10 years, and we did a lot of construction staking. We usually got a business license for a city when a large job began, but only renewed if there was an ongoing project.

Our home city was a hoot though - on top of the annual business license, they charged a personal property tax, requiring us to inventory our pencils and rolls of toilet paper!

[marchenko]

Yes. I once got red-tagged by an inspector while painting an aerial target in a city street. I had to follow him down to public works and buy a permit before I could keep working.

George Marchenko

[land butcher]

City codes are written by a handful of legal companies and therefore are almost identical.

A search of the city code of any city will reveal all the miniscule items that require money to the city.

As for surveyor business licenses they usually do not catch us unless we are listed as sub contractors on a const project. I am 99.9% sure that every city has a requirement and fee for surveyors even if you are only there one day you pay the yearly fee. Most do not prorate.

BE CAREFUL IF YOU GET A RENEWAL NOTICE - DO NOT JUST ROUND FILE IT. THESE SNEAKY GOVT AGENCIES HAVE A CLAUSE IN MOST RENEWALS THAT YOU ARE CONDUCTING BUSINESS IN THAT CITY UNLESS YOU TELL THEM THAT YOU ARE NO LONGER WORKING IN THAT CITY.

[desert turtoise]

I wanted to safely do my work and at same time keep tabs on a new greenhorn EIT assistant while I was setup in a fairly busy intersection. So I had him meet me out there before traffic picks up on a quiet chilly Sunday morning recently (City of El Cajon in SoCal).

I notice a guy drinking a cup of coffee is walking from the 7-11 parking lot, making a quick bee line towards me while I am setting over the point with the station. His tone does not come out casual but serious; " what are you doing, who do you work for ?". Sounds like the detective on 'Nightline' show last night interrogating the guy at the police station ! He goes on to say he is a building inspector for the city (not a public works inspector, as if it matters)

I tell him I plan on being in this intersection about 15 minutes before any traffic starts up. He says, "You're not here for safety, you want to avoid paying for the permit !"

This guys is just getting nastier by the minute. I ask him if he is off-duty to which he replies yes. I tell him he is out of line,
I am not doing any construction, and I point down the street one block at the guys working on the freeway overpass above on Sunday a.m.
I remind him they are the ones who have a permit for good reason, they are working in a Caltrans freeway on a constuction job. I am not doing any construction for this city.

This guy grumbles some more and says "don't let me ever see you out here again without a permit ! "

How's that for a helpful public servant during his "off" time, yet.

[land butcher]

That's my issue with govt employees, they think we are subservient to them when govt is only here to serve the public.

[7702]

That's my issue with govt employees, they think we are subservient to them when govt is only here to serve the public.

I can't speak for the attitudes of govt. employees down south, but there are a lot of hard working and dedicated public servants up here that would be happy to serve you!