Line and grade of all surveying.

[bruce hall]

A city here in Los Angeles has indicated to me that the contractor is responsible for the "line and grade of all surveying". It contends that this includes the surveying of the monuments for their perpetuation.

This is a road rehab project of about 3500 linear feet that includes sidewalk replacement, the road aspalt grind and digouts, ada ramp construction.

I have in my brain that the surveying for "line and grade" has to do with the line and grade surveying of the fixed works i.e. curb and gutter, storm drain, crown line, building footing forms.

The plans indicate that there is one monument that has to be "protected". I have found and located 12 centerline interesections, several pi's, bc's, property line tags in the sidewalks, and a few Army Corps of Engineers control points.

Does "line and grade" refer to the line and grade of survey monuments as well as line and grade for the fixed works? I have in my head what the answer is, just trying to see if I am out to lunch in this regard.

Your reponses will be greatly appreciated.

[pls7809]

Hey Bruce,

I'm not sure what the city worker is talking about, but I am sure that if you're the surveyor for the contractor then you're responsible for the perpetuation of any monuments in danger, not just the one identified on the plans. That would probably be a change order and maybe even a backcharge onto the engineer who prepared the plans since they said only 1 monument needs to be protected.

[dmi]

Recent changes to the PLS ACT include perpetuation of vertical control as well.

[Ric7308]

Bruce,

I read your post as the contractor is responsible for contracting with an appropriately licensed person to provide the "line and grade of all surveying".

And that contracted licensed person shall be a licensed land surveyor or authorized civil engineer if the services include perpetuation of monuments subject to disturbance or destruction. And only that licensed individual is authorized to make the determination of how many and which monuments require perpetuation.

Of course, that is how I read that...

Ric

[E_Page]

I would agree with Ric on that, but would also go a step further to say that unless the contract is structured in a way so as to specifically prevent extra charges regardless of field conditions, that it is the agency's reponsibility to ensure that the work is performed, and therefore to pay for the perpetuation of all those monuments you found, regardless of the incompleteness and inadequacy of their plans in properly showing that monumentation.

If for some reason you failed to perpetuate those positions and make records of them, the agency, or more specifically the licensee in responsible charge at the agency would still be responsible to ensure that it gets done.

[bruce hall]

all the monuments located. The question that I have is "Does the term -line and grade- pertain to the locating and perpetuating of monuments?"

In my brain it does not. Line and grade has nothing to do with survey monumnets and everything to do with the construction surveying of the fixed works. In the past Line and grade certifications have been provided by me for the line and grade of building footings, curb forms, top of pipe alignments, rough grade and the like.

I have never been asked to provide a "line and grade" certification on property corners or boundary markers. That type of surveying would require a Corner Record, RS or a plat of some sort.

"The governmental agency or others performing construction" are responsible for this work. It doesn't mean that they have to perform the work, only be responsible, and the work can only be performed by a LS on their staff or hire someone with the same license as I have. The Land Surveyor is not responsible for the work being accomplished, he is responsible that it is performed correctly, completely and according to various ordinances and laws. Or is that too verbose? Or does it make any sense?

All welcome comments from you guys, but what do you think about the "line and grade" question?

[Ric7308]

Bruce, I tend to agree with you...Line and Grade doesn't bring to mind monuments or control to me. In my thinking, that term implies providing horizontal and vertical location for the purposes of constructing something.

[B.D.Ide]

I agree also. We usually include two separate notes on our plans.

Under "Construction Notes", "Construction line and grade stakes shall be set by a Civil Engineer or Surveyor licensed in the State of California".

Under "Grading Notes" or "General Notes" "Survey monuments shall be preserved and referenced before construction and replaced after construction pursuant to Section 8771 of the State Business and Professions Code"

Bradley Ide, L.S.I.T
City of Ventura

[E_Page]

I agree as well. Taking your first and last post together, it sounds as if the agency just forgot about accounting for the monuments in their initial scoping of the survey portion of the project, and in fact didn't have much clue as to how to scope the survey portion if they simply left it up to the contractor to be responsible for staking and certifying "line and grade".

Now that they realize that monumentation is one of the things that should have been considered, they are taking the stand of "Oh yeah, that's included. You're a surveyor, you should know that. We were relying on you to foresee what all of the survey needs would be. Yeah, that's it."

The term "line and grade" refers to construction surveying, not monumentation unless it is specifically spelled out in the project specifications and/or noted as a construction item on the plans. It is not a term commonly associated with the establishment, re-establishment, or preservation of monuments.

[bruce hall]

of this board who responded to my query, thank you. Only five. Mmmmmmm.

[E_Page]

Maybe the 5 of us (or maybe just the other 4) said it so well that everyone else agreed and felt no need to add anything else. ;-)

[bruce hall]

the answer. Well said, Evan.

[Ric7308]

Or everybody else is busy with real work like Bruce and the rest of us have nothing better to do :)

[land butcher]

Just read this today, and I have to agree that "Line and Grade" have absolutely nothing to do with monuments/control points.