Is Permission Needed to Surveying Someone's Property?

Lee Hixson · Post by **Lee Hixson** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:46 am

Maybe someone on the board has run across this situation, but I haven't.

Here's the deal. We are working with a company that will be leasing BLM property in the mountains for a wind turbine facility. Most of the land is BLM, but there is one privately owned "island" parcel that's surrounded by BLM property: the E 1/2 of the E 1/2 of Section 11.

One of the turbines is close to this private parcel and they want me to break down the section and set corners around the private parcel. The trouble is, the owner is hostile. When I contacted her to just inquire about any knowledge she might have of any surveys or monuments on, or nearby, her parcel, the conversation fell apart and she is now a hostile adjoiner.

My first thought is, so what? Go ahead and do the survey, trying as best as possible to stay off her property. Set the corners and file my map. Perhaps, I could send a registered letter officially informing her of the survey, but is that really necessary?

Any advice would be appreciated.

JasonCamit · Post by **JasonCamit** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:01 am

Informing her of the "Right of Entry" laws that surveyor's have may help. Hopefully she is not growing anything she shouldn't out there.

E_Page · Post by **E_Page** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:27 am

Contact the central office to get some of the new Right of Entry brochures. There are two versions. One is focused toward landowners and law enforcement. The other is focused toward the surveyor and his/her employees. Both do a good job of explaining the rights and responsibilities of the surveyor under the law.

In your circumstance, I would send a letter, certified if you expect trouble, explaining what you will be doing and that although you will attempt to conduct all of your work without entering her property, it may be necessary at some point to cross a portion of her property to conduct your work on the BLM land. I would include one of the new ROE brochures from CLSA.

Also, if expecting trouble, I would probably touch base with the sheriff's duty officer, ahve a short conversation about what you're doing, that you have concern that you may have to call on the SD to send a deputy to "keep the peace" for a short time as you conduct your work. Using the brochure as a guide, discuss the surveyor's ROE with the officer to ensure that he understands it. Law enforcement enforces Penal Code but not Civil Code, so focus on the provision in the Penal Code. Touch base with him again ahead of time once you know when you will need to access the adjoiner's land.

Lee Hixson · Post by **Lee Hixson** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:44 am

Thanks. That's basically what I was thinking about. If our proposal is accepted I will get a letter sent out.

LA Stevens · Post by **LA Stevens** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:13 am

Lee,

The brochure is also available in a PDF on the members site of the CLSA website. It's under â€œDownloadsâ€. They did a great job and I would recommend you getting a packet of each.

http://www.californiasurveyors.org/memb ... nload.html

Attached is also a White Paper I wrote regarding Right of Entry that was endorsed by LSACTS. At the end of the paper is a sample letter for a property owner in the vicinity.

Hope you get the job!

land butcher · Post by **land butcher** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:34 pm

She may not accept the registered letter.

Registered letters are red flags to some people as they usually have legal issues attached.

E_Page · Post by **E_Page** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:47 pm

But if she refuses it, there is a record of that returned to the sender as well along with the returned letter, evidencing a good faith effort to provide reasonable notice of allowed tresspass and of notifying her of the surveyor's rights and responsibilities as well as of her own.

If the letter were returned refused, I would take it along when going to the sheriff dept to set up a time to do that work. Don't open it until you're with the duty officer to show him what you sent.

mpallamary · Post by **mpallamary** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:35 pm

I would download Larry's white paper. It is a superb piece of work and it should answer all your questions.

Lee Hixson · Post by **Lee Hixson** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:17 am

Thanks, Larry & Michael. Indeed, that white paper covered all the bases. Very well researched and clearly written. If we get the job I will mail my version of the suggested letter of notification.

Note that this island parcel, and the surrounding BLM land, involves the thread I started in February about the "ridge line as a natural boundary." The County line is the ridge line and the ridge line meanders back and forth through this private parcel.

I've done a lot of research on the county line issue. Turns out the client informs us that they had another sub do an aerial lidar and they have a DEM on it now. Based on this, I continued my research and tracked down a GIS watershed algorithm that has been successfully used to demarcate watersheds around the country.

Next, I found a PhD in GIS who is an expert at using this GIS routine and he's eager to dive into the DEM and help us figure out where the county line is. We will work with the two county surveyors to come up with an acceptable smoothing factor whereby we will "best fit" portions of the watershed boundary (a collection of points), creating "lines" that are, say, no more than 0.5' away from any of the points along the ridge line. Thereby we can create discrete line segments instead of leaving the line as nothing but a series of non-linear points. This way, a metes & bounds description could be created and monuments could be set.

I told the client that he needs to provide us with the official report on the lidar DEM so that we can evaluate how it was produced, what the datums are, hor/vert accuracies, etc., so that we can get both counties on board.

It's fun, for a change, to dig in and create a new scenario to attack a unique problem. If it comes to pass, might make for a good article. Could become a model for future county line locations.

LA Stevens · Post by **LA Stevens** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:49 am

I used to send all of the letters certified mail with return receipt. One day a very wealthy adjoiner called me and was very upset with me that she had to waist time going to the post office to pickup a piece of mail I sent, which required her sign for it to receive it.

I send them regular mail now. I can sympathize with the general population who is not usually home to receive the mail which needs a signature. On the other hand if the mailing address is a post office box, I might send it certified mail.

Lee,
Sounds like an interesting job and it would make a great article. Good Luck!

E_Page · Post by **E_Page** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:57 pm

"If it comes to pass, might make for a good article."

I was thinking the same thing as I was reading your post.

Larry makes a good point in re certified letters. I don't make a practice of sending certified each time I notify an adjoiner. I have sent them regular mail, and I've hand delivered when I've had no indication of problems. But in a case where you already know you have trouble, or have a reasonable expectation of trouble with an adjoiner, I'd still send certified. If you already have problems, the fact that they're upset about having to sogn for a letter or go to the P.O. to get it won't make much difference.

Stephen Johnson · Post by **Stephen Johnson** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:12 pm

JasonCamit wrote:Informing her of the "Right of Entry" laws that surveyor's have may help. Hopefully she is not growing anything she shouldn't out there.

And call the county Sheriff to let him know the situation. He might have to send a deputy or two with you.