LSACTS group formed

[mpallamary]

Howdy,

Please find attached a press release for the formation of the Land Surveyors Advisory Council on Technical Standards (LSACTS). We have formed a think tank with a goal to debate and explore land surveying issues. It is our goal to periodically release "White Papers" documenting our research and analysis. If you are interested in our organization, we have a link to join in through linkedin.

http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2027 ... =hb_side_g

We are also going to make the uncirculated writings and lectures of Curt Brown available through this site.

We are looking forward to hearing from other surveyors who might have an interest in our efforts as well as suggested subjects for our consideration.

Michael Pallamary, PLS, LSACTS

www.lsacts.com

[Jim Frame]

I've submitted a request to join the LinkedIn group. Can I join even though I don't support mandatory continuing education? :)

I offer 2 suggestions for the press release:

1. In the "think tank" sentence, replace "is comprised of" with either "is composed of" or "comprises."

2. Replace "The organization's principle purpose" with "The organization's principal purpose."

.

[mpallamary]

Thanks for the suggested edits. I appreciate it very much.

[Gary O]

I've glanced through your site and am curious...

*What problem it is you're trying to solve?

*Are you presenting yourselves as a mediation body?

*Are you suggesting that your 'papers' will be accepted as the 'right 'way to arrive at a surveying solution?

*Who selected, elected or appointed your members? Self appointed?

*Only one surveyor from NorCal? Eight from Sandiego?

You just suddenly popped up so forgive my suspicion.

[bruce hall]

woe beats my heart, suspicion...tears us apart, suspicion...keeps us apart, suspicion...why torture meeee.

[Gary O]

HAHAHAHA! That's been stuck in my head all afternoon!

[Gary O]

Mr. Wooley,

Forgive me, but these seem like pretty basic questions about your organization, and it's going to take a few weeks and a meeting of the Board to answer them?

[land butcher]

quote Forgive me, but these seem like pretty basic questions about your organization, and it's going to take a few weeks and a meeting of the Board to answer them? unquote

Maybe they are with the federal govt :)

[bruce hall]

that it took two surveyors in a pickup traveling to work for a few months discussing the LSA and comming up with an idea to revise the LSA so that Licensed Surveyors could use the term "Professional" in front of their existing title of Land Surveyor. The Civil Engineers could "legally" do it, why not us?

One guy was pretty smart but the other was more of a tackman/hubeater.

The smart one presented a motion at their local CLSA chapter meeting proposing this idea, there was a second, a small discussion, and the rest is history.(The reason the smart one made the motion was that the two surveyors thought that no one would take hubeater seriously enough to get a second on the motion.)

Now that scenario is relatively simple, but I don't know what it took to get legislation passed to accomplish that. I am sure a lot of people worked on it and deserve any credit that is thrown at them.

For me, I think that it is great that a few surveyors that comprise the LSACTS are trying to get together and do all the stuff that they said they wanted to do in the FIRST PARAGRAPH of that press release.(I couldn't make heads or tails of the rest of the stuff, but I like the first paragraph.)

They might even come up with stuff that will help keep me out of trouble. And if it comes to a vote, I will cast mine for the Pallamary/Woolley ticket, if the election was gonna be held today.

[subman]

Below are the mission statements per se for CLSA and LSACTS and the League of California Surveying Organizations (LCSO). Not particularly different in scope with no apparent conflict. I am a member of CLSA and LCSO.

It appears that many of the 10 original members of LSACTS are CLSA-SD Chapter members. I think there is nothing wrong with the formation of another "group". My only comment is that the group should be balanced enough geographically so that the outputs of the group are not to heavily influenced by a local bias based on the membership and makeup of the executive committee. Just my opinion...

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CLSA advances the interests of the profession of Land Surveying, to maintain the highest possible standards of professional ethics and practice, to encourage uniformity of practices and procedures, and foster public faith in and understanding of Land Surveyors and their work.

CLSA represents Land Surveyors, in public or private practice, whether they are employees or proprietors.

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The organization’s (LSACTS) principle purpose is to research, summarize, debate, and publish its findings on various topics relating to the principles and applications of the Professional Land Surveyors Act and the California Subdivision Map Act.

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LCSO has been serving the public for over 40 years. It's mission is to standardize mapping and the practice of Land Surveying across the State of California through active dissemination of information. It's members include County and City Surveyors, Caltrans, representatives from special districts, professional organizations, and private consultants whose primary focus is providing surveying services to the Government sector. Meetings are held in various locations on the first Thursday of each month throughout Southern California.

[mpallamary]

Thank you everyone for your wonderful comments! They are refreshing and welcomed.

To all who have an interest, what we are trying to say and why we were considering a delayed response is because we are in the process of receiving replies and trying to respond to everyone. I cannot keep up with the large volume of emails and calls and exceptionally positive responses we are receiving. When we sent the press release out, we contacted more than 500 individuals and organizations. It has been very exciting and we have received an overwhelming positive response from all corners; the reaction has been exceptionally favorable!

Because of such a positive response, we are doing our best to respond to everyone as well as to resume our objectives. To these ends, I would discourage the notion that we are a "splinter group." There are numerous organizations that fulfill some very important goals. These include NSPS, ACSM, CLSA, and the League of California Cities. I would also add that we are not asking for anyone's endorsement nor are we seeking anyone's endorsement. We have taken the initiative to form an independent organization with a stated goal of supporting other organizations.

To these ends, please know that each and everyone of us has served CLSA in so many ways and continue to do so. I would run out of space trying to relate these for you. Indeed, Mike Butcher is a former state president. Several of our board members have been CLSA Chapter presidents including Casey Lynch, Larry Stevens, and myself. I was a chapter president 27 years ago and my son is a vice-president of the San Diego Chapter. We have a representative from the Bay Area, one from Orange County and we have an open seat that we would like to see filled with someone from up north or possible Sacramento. We did not ask anyone for permission to form a group nor is it required. What we did do was let our friends and fellow professional know what we were doing because it needs to be done. Why, because your thoughts are important.

As to CLSA and its objectives and missions, we all support the organization's activities. Certainly if CLSA wants to form a group or tackle these issues in one of its committees, that would be a splendid idea. The more of us who stand up for the profession, the more we will advance as individuals.

As to our white papers, we do not propose to have all the answers. I do not believe any of us do. What we do have is a desire to tackle some complex issues and to these ends, we are all willing to work. With all due respect for any questions that may arise, I would suggest that anyone who is interested in our work to consider taking a deep breath and seeing what we do. We are not a splinter group nor are we doing anything adverse to the profession. I would instead submit that what we are doing is going to be of immense benefit to the profession. If we fail, than we fail and if we succeed, we will all benefit. Success has many fathers but failure is an orphan. In the end, that is the price for standing up and taking a position on something. I must tell you, based upon the exceptionally favorable responses we have received from so many surveyors across the state, there is extraordinary support for our efforts. That has been very refreshing. We have heard from some licensed surveyors who are not affiliated with CLSA. That is their choice not to join CLSA and who are we to say it is a wise one? I, for one, will continue to urge them to join CLSA. I always do this and that is not going to change. We even heard from a surveyor in Europe. Some of the Executive Board members of NSPS have suggested we develop a model for other states.

On a personal note, if you have any interest in some of my own activities on behalf of CLSA, I would like to share the enclosed story with you. It is added as an attachment and it involved elevating CLSA's standing in the legal arena. To get there I contributed thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on behalf of the organization. I had no dog in that fight and no client. What I did was what had to be done because it was the right thing to do. In the end CLSA derived all the benefit and that is all I aimed for. I would do it again of called upon. I do not shirk hard work.

In addition, over the years I have written a great many articles for the Cal-Surveyor and have served on a large number of committees. Many of those who enjoy the fruits of my labor and others like Paul Cuomo and many of our board members can credit the time we have devoted to CLSA over the years. Indeed, CLSA is a wonderful organization and much of its success is predicated and built upon the early pioneers who envisioned the organization. I, for one, will continue to make as many contributions to CLSA as I can and I will continue to do so at every possible chance. In fact I donated some precious old wooden hubs given to me by my old friend Curt Brown for the upcoming conference. I think I made the largest financial contributions at last year's Conference Auction by buying some things knowing where the money is going. I have to ask you, what am I going to do with a $800.00 leveling rod that is broken?

Pursuant to an agreement I made with Curt before he passed away, I am in the process of releasing his lectures and writings so that we, as surveyors, can enjoy his work. I am going to make these available to anyone who wants to have this material. I would add that my friends Walt Robillard and Don Wilson are assisting me. I am hopeful everyone will enjoy this material. I would hope that those who read this will want to see this stuff. It is exceptional work. I have spent years gathering it all up and scanning and organizing it. I shudder to think what this has cost me.

To conclude my thoughts, I would like to quote another surveyor I have always admired. His sentiments are generally applicable here. His name is Thomas Jefferson:

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned -- this is the sum of good government."

[land butcher]

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned -- this is the sum of good government.


Sure wish we had one of those.

[mpallamary]

Well we can still keep trying!

I mentioned to a surveyor friend of mine today, we are all headed towards the same field, we are just taking different paths. As long as we get there, regardless of the path taken, we can do nothing but profit.

[mpallamary]

Here's a couple more. It was a long and good work day.

[Jim Frame]

Are you sure those are actually land surveyors? They're all wearing ties...

.

[jcoffey]

Looks like Casey didn't get the white shirt memo.

John Coffey

[mpallamary]

You guys are killing me!

We stopped at Target and bought the ties on the way to the meeting! Casey is from Chicago - go figure.

[PLS7393]

Looks like Casey didn't get the white shirt memo.

John Coffey

Casey's shirt was white the night before, but he had to do laundry!