How to locate residential property lines

[PE_PLS]

I came across this today while searching a city website for something else...I did find it quite outrageous that a city would put something like this together, especially for a city where much of it is in very hilly areas and fences are often several feet off. Comments?

[bubblewatcher]

I've been doing it all wrong all these years then

[VANCE]

Just think of all the project that were approved and built based on fence and street locations.

[pls7809]

Is there a PPC in the local chapter for that area?

[PE_PLS]

I don't know if there is a PPC here or not, this is in San Mateo County....maybe Keith Nofield has some input?

[Gromatici]

It had to have been done by a Planner. They think they know everything... just measure along the fence.

[bruce hall]

item 1 in the pdf is the most accurate way to determine your front property line.

Item 2 seems to infer that measuring from the rear fence is the most accurate for the "do it your self" types, but the paragraph does talk about resulting accuracy.

Item 3 of the pdf states that "connecting those end points will APPROXIMATE" your front property lines.

If Item 2 had included that verbage, it think that it really isn't that big of a deal.

I use the description in Item 3, or something similar to it, over the phone,quite a lot to try and help the landowner find his front corners, or at least give him a feel for where they might be. This way the landowner has a better idea of what is in store for him, and maybe even be able to make a better determination as to whether or not he should hire me or the guy down the street. This probably takes money out my pocket and that's just the way it is.

I live in the flatlands, and most of the time centerline of the street splits the curbs and the fences are kinda close to pl, within a half a foot or so, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

[Rob_LS]

Let's get some input from CLSA PPC before we go writing any letters...

[dmi]

JUST SEND THIS TO THE BPELS AND ASK THEIR OPINION. EVERYTING NEEDS TO BE REMOVED AFTER THE PART ABOUT HIRING A SURVEYOR.
EVERYONE, INLCUDING SURVEYORS SEEMS TO THINK THAT BOUNDARY RESOLUTION IS ABOUT MEASUREMENT. MEASUREMENT IS A FORM OF EVIDENCE. IT IS NOT THE ONLY FORM OF EVIDENCE AND IT MAY NOT BE CONCLUSIVE AS TO THE LOCATION OF A PARTICULAR BIUNDARY. THE REST IS DIRECTION ON EVIDENCE EVALUATION. THIS IS HARDLY AN APPROPRIATE ACTIVITY FOR LAY PEOPLE.
I KNOW HOW TO USE THE DEVICE TO CHECK MY BLOOD PRESSURE, BUT I'D DARE SAY THAT I AM ABLE TO IMPLANT STENTS ON A PATIENT.

[goodgps]

Dang ! Dane !
I was heading over your way for a "stent" implant !!

I was hoping for a craneal stent to improve intelligence.

As far as the TOPIC !

About once a month, I get a call from an angry neighbor, who's other neighbor installed improvements using techniques described by a planner or Public agency counter person.
[none of which are from My particularly County, but from surrounding agencies]

These tactics do create issues ! But what if we (as surveyors) were allowed to offer professional opinions, at reasonable fees, in order to avoid such Kayoss ?

I agree with Dane about the measurement thing. Any button pushin monkey can operate a measuring device. Its the "what U measuring" issue that requires more tallent.

Good luck with that letter.

Orin A. Tang

[btaylor]

Interesting read. Perhaps that is why I rarely get calls for surveying in Millbrae. They must not require it for a lot of projects whereas the city contguous to the south, Burlingame, is much, much more strict.

[mpallamary]

Hi,
I had a few idle moments to contemplate this matter and as opposed to filing a complaint, this is a wonderful opportunity to use this situation as a chance to educate the public through municipalities and city counters such as this one. I did some research and there are a couple of brochures available but none that really hits this issue on point. Accordingly, I took a copy of the Board's consumer brochure and I edited it. The Board brochure covers all disciplines and can be a bit confusing for someone who is only looking for a boundary line survey. I therefore have prepared a draft brochure that CLSA might want to consider refining and adopting and then sending to as many agencies as possible along with a cover letter. That way, we can discreetly inform these agencies of the proper procedures to consider when people ask about hiring a land surveyor. I have attached the Board's consumer brochure along with the one I kicked up this afternoon. I am sure with a couple more hours, I could refine it to work for this situation. Does anyone have an interest in this? Perhaps this could be refined to a three page fold out. We can insert an example of a Record of Survey Map and a CR. Please note this is not the same as the CLSA brochure in that that one deals with other types of surveys. This would solely be used for boundary line determination. Can the viewers of this forum share their thoughts on this? I am similarly hoping there is interest at the state level. If not, I may develop this as a marketing tool but would prefer to use it for the betterment of the profession at large, i.e. CLSA. My draft is called HIRE A SURVEYOR and the Board's is the ls_consumer guide. If there is an interest in this project, there is no reason it couldn't be completed in a few weeks. If a CLSA publication, we can all use it as a marketing tool.

Thoughts?

We must remember we control our own destiny and if we do not carry our own flag, no one else is going to.

[land butcher]

Some years ago a friend and potential client in Laguna Beach went to the City Hall to get a copy of her tract map . When she told the clerk why she wanted it to hire a surveyor, The clerk gave her a copy of the assessors map and pointed at the lot corners and stated "You don't need a surveyor, just go to these points with a shovel and dig up your property corners".

Gee, all that LS training for nothing.

[RAM]

Maybe a conversation with the city attoney. He might have a concern over liablity.

[land butcher]

I think Gary Shelton set that city straight

[dmi]

We have all seen, time and again, the actions on the part of local agencies.
These local agenices ought to know better, but many times they do not or the issue is not fully appreciated and therefore easily dismissed. While there is always an opportunity for professional promotion of the goals of CLSA, the issue being dicussed here is not a personal issue or a pet peeve. The handout is clearly dangerous in the hands of a lay person. If the issues were brought to the attention of the State, the result would be a gentle reminder to the issuers of the handout. This in and of itself is not a bad thing. No action in addition to input from the state is barred and no opportunity is lost, market away if that is your desire.

[PLS7393]

Ok, since my name has been brought up, . . . time for me to chime in.

As for a local JPPC within the Santa Clara / San Mateo Co. Chapter, as stated, there is no official committee, but we have been attempting to get one back in working order. There is a chairman, and communications have taken place in the attempt to organize again.

As for this post pertaining to an informational pamphlet from the Planning Division from a city within the county I am employed by, I have taken the initiative to begin to educate the City of Millbrae Planning Division. I deal with the City Engineer, and have sent him an e-mail requesting his assistance in educating the Planning Division, and a link to this thread, since the concerns of their pamphlet has caught the attention from surveyors state wide.

I gave them the oppertunity to contact me if they have any questions and mentioned that it is cheaper to hire a surveyor now, then the potential litigation at a later date, for their residents if an issue comes up between neighbors.

[dmi]

Thanks for your effort Keith

[PLS7393]

Afternoon update:

My e-mail has been forwarded to the Planning Department and City Engineer.
This post has been included in the e-mail, so the educational process has begun.

Thank you all for your input and Dane for bringing this up.
(You still need to submit payment with your record of surveys for review though, heheheee)