Recorded/Filed Documents

PE_PLS · Post by **PE_PLS** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:59 am

There is a certain county in this state whereby the recorder's office does not make available copies of recorded/filed maps. This county will allow you to view the maps, but not get a copy because they don't have a large format printer (which doesn't make any sense to me, this isn't a backwoods county, this is one of the biggest counties in the SF Bay Area). If you want a copy of the map you must either go to the public works department (15 miles and 3 cities away) or they send you to a private print shop that has copies of the maps.

2 Questions:
1. Is this legal, must the recorder provide copies of a recorded document on site or can they make you go to a private company?
2. How quickly after a document records must a copy be made available? In this same county it can take a couple of months to get a copy of a record of survey because they outsource the scanning (and make you go to the private company if you want a copy).

Basically, what are the LEGAL obligations of a county recorder in providing copies of recorded/filed documents? Any laws/statutes governing this would be appreciated.

T. S. Higgins · Post by **T. S. Higgins** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:12 pm

All Public Records in the state of California fall under the State's verson of the Freedom of Information Act, known as the California Public Records Act.

A link to it, under Government Code Sections 6250-6270 follows:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... =6250-6270

Under Section 6353, Subdivision (b)- Except with respect to public records exempt from disclosure by express provisions of law, each state or local agency, upon a request for a copy of records that reasonably describes an identifiable record or records, shall make the records promptly available to any person upon payment of fees covering direct costs of duplication, or a statutory fee if applicable. Upon request, an exact copy shall be provided unless impracticable to do so.

It'd be helpful to read both Sections 6353 and 6353.1. Also, if the records are stored in an electronic format like a scanned PDF, you could look over Section 6953.9, since it would allow you to request an electronic copy of any file that is available as a public record, in any format used by the agency.

The line between what is "impracticable" and what isn't, especially if they simply lack a large format printer, is going to be the stumbling block. The code seems to be worded in such a way as to suggest that you should be able to obtain a copy of any public record within 10 days, upon request, but there are several "outs" written into the language.

This is all based on my own tenuous understanding of the Government Code, so peruse that link and see what you make of it.

Edit- Now that I think of it, it mentions that the cost of the copy shall be limited to the cost of the creation of said copy. It might be within reason for them to claim that since they outsource all large scale copying, they can charge you the rate that they pay per copy, though this would at least cause them to do the legwork involved in going to the local print shop.

PE_PLS · Post by **PE_PLS** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:34 pm

Thanks T.S.

I do know about the CA FIA, but I'm wondering if these types of records (deeds, birth/death certs, maps, etc.) fall into a different category. I don't know the answer to this, but I wonder because this kind of information has been available long before the CA FIA and I wonder if the County Recorder falls under some different set of regulations. Again, this is just a guess, but I don't know how to go about looking for this type of information...if no one knows, maybe I should just go and ask the recorder about it!

PE_PLS · Post by **PE_PLS** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:23 pm

California Government Code Sec 27200-27399 governs the position of County Recorder. I've gone through the code several times and I find absolutely nothing about making copies of any official record and if it is even required. Maybe this is governed at the county level? Any help is appreciated.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/gov.html

CHAPTER 6. RECORDER
Article 1. Duties Generally ............................... 27201-27211
Article 2. Books .......................................... 27230-27265
Article 3. Documents to be Recorded ..................... 27279-27297.6
Article 3.5. Social Security Number Truncation Program .... 27300-27307
Article 4. Recording ...................................... 27320-27337
Article 5. Fees ........................................... 27360-27388
Article 6. Electronic Recording Delivery Act of 2004 ...... 27390-27399

T. S. Higgins · Post by **T. S. Higgins** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:18 pm

You may be at the point that asking the recorder directly would be helpful. I would still tend to think that recorded documents would be governed by the California PRA, unless there was some indication to the contrary in another section of the Government code. The Recorder would certainly be the best person to tell you if that is the case.

Anthony Maffia · Post by **Anthony Maffia** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:05 pm

The county in question has had this or an equivalent policy, to not make copies of any map, for my 20 years of experience. The "local copy shop" is about 8 blocks away, and used to make them while you wait, and the cost was reasonable. If the copy (or scan) is poor quality, then they will request the original from the county, but this can take 1 to 2 weeks.

land butcher · Post by **land butcher** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:54 am

Govt agencies seem to be above the law and our currant and previous CA attorney generals dont seem to care. Case in point the City/County of San Francisco still uses affirmative action in its contracts.
I heard of one County up north that files its maps in a pile in the corner.
Orange county, during their bankruptsy, the map sections 70% copier broke and they would not fix it for ~6 months so unless you wanted maps on 8.5x11 you had to go to a local blueprint company who moved out of Santa Ana due to the massive fees imposed by the SA redevelopment agency.
My nearby city is eliminating parking and adding a traffic lane without widening the street. And in some areas street parking was included in the approvals for apartments.
The problem they have created is sight distance, with trees and curves sight distance is reduced and you can no longer inch out into an non-lane to see approaching traffic. They refuse to do sight distance studies, but if you were to develop a property your CE would have to provide them with sight distance studies for every entrance dwy.