The way I feel- my response to email offer

[dmi]

Please never send me an email again. I am insulted by your offer. I am not interested in the race to the bottom that your offer represents. There are plenty of fine American workers to do the jobs we need done. If we are unwilling to take care of the people who help us succeed in business, then perhaps we ought not to be in business at all.

I get these offers all the time and I am not interested.

Goodbye and good riddance

DANE INCE, LS 8142
CERTIFIED FEDERAL SURVEYOR 1099
PRESIDENT SAN FRANCISCO SURVEYING C0.,INC.
WWW.SANFRANCISCOSURVEYINGCOMPANY.COM
415-321-9300


From: Roy Tellier LLS [mailto:retlls@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:32 PM
To: surveyor@sanfranciscosurveyingcompany.com
Subject: From Roy Edward Tellier LLS

Dear Sir,

I am a Licensed Land Surveyor in the State of New York and now working in China. With the current financial crisis in the US I may be able to offer you a service that could be very beneficial to your firm. I have a team of workers and can perform all necessary survey support operations at a great savings. It has come to my attention that many firms are keeping employees on staff with little work for them to do. By outsourcing your calculations and or drafting to China you can increase your profit margin on each project.

BENEFITS

1. All work performed or supervised by a licensed surveyor.
2. Only pay for hours worked or on a project basis.
3. No insurance, unemployment taxes , paid holidays, vacation, sick leave or comp time.
4. Prompt, professional and personalized service.


If you are interested in discussing this further please contact me at retlls@yahoo.com

Regards,

Roy Edward Tellier LLS (NYS # 050430)

[BeachBum]

Bravo … will there be no end to outsourcing jobs!!

[PLS7393]

Unfortunately they can sneak around the law on this, cause they would probably want to have their work be under the CA Licensed Land Surveyor who they sent the original solicitation to.

I just received one last week for an out of state AutoCad drafter, not even licensed.

[goodgps]

Aww c'mon Dane,

Just buy rosetta stone, learn Chinese and go for it. Doesn't everbody know we are supposed to support the world ?

I'm just kidding . . . dont go coastal on me.

Good job Dane

"Good"

[Jim Frame]

Note that the offer was for "survey support operations," not professional land surveying services. To me that means they're offering drafting services. While I don't favor offshoring jobs and I personally don't sub out my drafting to anyone anywhere, there's nothing illegal about it. The licensed professional who signs the map is responsible for reviewing the work prior to affixing his imprimatur, just as he would with work produced by an in-house drafting staff.

.

[goodgps]

No Jim,

We can't hire these guys. If we do wouldn't there be an import tax ?

YUk YUK YUK

Unfortunately in our society, we are subject to many forms of "salesmanship" fraud, entrapment etc. how many times have you gotten the call to renew your "listing" subscription ? or how about that $400 invoice for books and merchandise you've ordered ? (never recieved of course)
According to sales people, we have accounts with sprint, ATT, verizon and cricket.
We have booked cruises, flights, and own a time share in Vermont.
My business is listed in the Brittish post, the Virgin islands and Australia. AND my payment is OVERDUE!

A former employees Dad tried to borrow $400K against my company. (he is now behind bars)

If your a small business owner, you must be too filthy rich to care who you write checks to. ?? right ?

Didn't we outsource our animal food to China ? how did that work ?

your friend "good"

[Gromatici]

"dont go coastal on me." That was great! LOL. Funny how it was from the same office, same last name. I guess we all knew who they were talking about at bedtime.

[dmi]

Jim,

I agree a drafting service is a drafting service. But for me the problem area arises from the following portion of the solicitation:

BENEFITS

1. All work performed or supervised by a licensed surveyor.

So if the fellow wants to change his email blast to remove the number one benefit, then I could see it as just another off-shore drafting service that I will ignore.

[Jim Frame]

"All work performed or supervised by a licensed surveyor."

Would it be less objectionable if it said "All work performed or supervised by a licensed proctologist"? What difference does it make who supervises the drafting? It's still just a drafting service marketed to licensed professionals.

If he were pitching professional land surveying services to the general public, that'd be a different matter, but the solicitation says "outsourcing calculations and or drafting" and "survey support." That's an important distinction.

.

[PLS7393]

It's all SPAM to me, and thats why I reply back with that comment.
"Please remove me from your SPAM list". If they continue, then you have cause.

[dmi]

Jim,
I think you are being silly. WE get that the service is a drafting service.
But the number on BENEFIT listed by the spam is the work is PERFORMED OR SUPERVISED BY A LICENSED LAND SURVEYOR. Unless the man is licensed in Ca., he is not allowed of offer LICENSED services.

.

[E_Page]

Ditto Jim's 1st post. However I do find this particular ad objectionable in that:

1. The soliciter encourages employers to dump their employees to save some $. There should be a little more consideration in that decision.
2. He is probably paying his drafters about $3/day.
3. He plays on the state of the economy here in the US, but is urging prospects to send $ out of our direct economy.

I see the fact that he is stating his license as a means of stating his experience or knowledge level, not as an implcation that he is licensed to practice in any state other than NY.

I don't outsource any of my work either. But if I did, it'd be local.

[Ian Wilson]

"Would it be less objectionable if it said "All work performed or supervised by a licensed proctologist"? "

That's why I enjoy Jim's posts! Reductio ad absurdum! Reduce the argument to the absurd to show the faulty reasoning. Something I often do, myself. Keep it up, Jim!

As did Dane, I found the original email to be offensive. Not because of the comment about licensure, but his nonchalant, flippant manner in which he promotes reduction of force as a cost saving measure. The man is licensed in New York State. He is also very short sighted in his analysis of cost reducing measures.

Dane, my friend, I completely understand your anger and frustration. It is entirely merited, too, in my opinion! To offer up another pseudo-Latin motto: Illegitimi non carborundum; offered up as “Don’t let the bastards wear you down.” (Proper Latin: Noli nothis permittere te terere)

That’s why G-d invented the <Delete> button on your keyboard.

Ah well, I have better things to spend my “PO” on…such as the client who bounced a check after not paying the bill for 8 months…

[Jim Frame]

I agree that I'm being silly, because it's just one piece of spam in a sea of spam. However -- continuing the silliness -- offering to perform unregulated services without a license isn't illegal. I do acknowledge that he's in violation of §8708 for using a restricted title.

15 years ago when spam first started showing up, I would respond with requests to be removed from the distribution list or complain to the postmaster at the ISP. It's so ubiquitous now that anything that slips past my spam filters gets the treatment Ian suggests: the Delete key.

.

[dmi]

Thanks for your responses, I have sumbitted it to the Board and if they want to follow thru, so be it.

I do not think it is really a big deal. I get tons of these things all the time and I do not read past the first sentence or two , before hitingt delete.

But in this case the solictation seems to be a borderline infraction and mainly given the hard time folks are having right now, I thought it might make a good topic for discussion with others.