Monument Caps

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Whose using those bronze or aluminum caps with the plastic insert to hold them securely on a pipe or rebar? Like the ones Bertsen sells here: http://www.berntsen.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1742

Have you visited these some years later to see how they hold up? If so, how are they?

It seems to me that except for the problems exacerbated by direct sun exposure, that they would have many of the same drawbacks as the plastic caps/plugs that many use. For instance, if a brush fire goes through, does the cap stay on?

I've been using brass caps cemented into galvanized pipe, but am open for an easier solution if a durable one can be found.

[Jim Frame]

I have some of the Berntsen aluminum caps with polyethylene isolators, but I've not used them much. I don't have any experience with them in a fire; my guess is that most if not all of the plastic would stay in place as long as the heat isn't too intense. (A good hot fire will melt the cap anyway.)

I mostly use plastic caps/plugs on steel form stakes or in pipes. I acknowledge that they aren't appropriate for fire-prone areas or locations exposed to long periods of direct sunlight, but those two conditions don't pertain much where I do most most of my work.

I like to avoid grouting anything into a pipe because of the time it takes and all the stuff you have to carry around (grout, mixing cup, water, stirring stick).

When I don't use a plastic cap, I generally wire on a brass tag. 14 gauge copper wire works well and won't rust off after a few years.

My favorite monument for urban use is the 1" brass disk with the plastic insert (sold by Berntsen and others) in concrete. A rotohammer is required (okay, strongly advised) for installation, but if you use the countersink bit Berntsen sells they go in quick, are easy to find, and should last as long as the concrete does.

[btaylor]

I just got my first batch in the mail yesterday, and will try them out next week. I also wonder about the same issues, but I find the standard plastic plug to be worse to use simply due to sun exposure.

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I've been using the little boxes of Rockite, which are good for about 3 caps. You're right, Jim. It's a pain to carry those around, along with the extra water, the time to mix it, fill the pipe, and such.

Seems like there should be a better solution. I was also thinking of some sort of premixed epoxy or liquid weld in a tube type stuff, but haven't tried any of those yet.

[Gromatici]

First let me say this: I hate rebar! I just recovered 2 galvanized steel pipes set in 1909, and they look like they are 5 years old. It's much more professional. Rebar looks too much like something the gardener set to tie down a sampling. It rusts too, unlike galvanized steel pipe. I’ve had client complain to me about surveyors setting rebar. Plus the rebar caps get loose over time. Plastic plugs are just cheap. They are great for control points, but for a monuments I don't want something that can so easily be destroyed. A hundred years ago surveyors were using much more durable materials like stone and even steel, but now we use plastic? Doesn't seem right.


Anyway, I use 1" GSP with Alum. plugs. I usually put "Survey Marker or Boundary Marker" on them. Many times I have the crews encase them in concrete. It's all about including it in the budget.

http://www.surv-kap.com/pipec.htm

You could buy a glue gun and some construction adhesive and put in some brass caps or these:

Click on miniplug marker. They are made of copper and fit well into 3/4" or 1" pipe.

http://www.survey-markers.com/index.html

I've also ordered the "concrete" markers and simply use adhesive to insert the cap although concrete is better.

Try the plugs and see how you like them. You'll need to buy a driver and a pipe fitter (total of about $35) but they do work well.

[goodgps]

I've run across aluminum caps that were 5 years old in the Vacaville area. They tend to oxidize a bit but if they arent damaged, they can be brushed off and read somewhat.
I still think a good old brass tag that was well made, holds up the best. Plastic can breakdown like you've said.
Are these new Bertsen cap affordable ?

[btaylor]

I think a more basic cap can be better than using plastic inside. There was a surveyor here in the Bay Area who used 1" pipes with a brass cap which was held in place by a screw in the side of the cap. They look like they were set a few years ago when you find them. I think if you had some preset drillhole made into the pipe and you fix the cap this way, it would be better than using plastic as a simple seal.

And Eric, I could not agree with you more about rebar. I think it is a very poor monument. The caps tend to crack and split off them sooner than if they were set inside a pipe. Also, I find rebar, since it is a solid piece of metal, does not seat very well in a lot of types of soil, unlike a pipe which has soil going inside it when you pound it in.

edit - I would greatly prefer brass caps instead of aluminum but the costs are too significant.

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I like brass better because of the oxidation thing, so I spend the extra $2 or $3 per cap for it. If I were doing subdivision work where I were setting hundreds of these things, I might rethink that.

Eric, Berntsen sells that same mini plug and I was considering those as they seem like the perfect size to cover the top of the 1" GIPs. I don't know that the screw through the side would work too well with those though.

I recovered some galvanized rebar this past January that was set in 1970. They were up out of the ground 4" to 6" and looked as if they had been set the week before. That's the only time I've seen galvanized rebar and had never heard of it prior to that.

5/8" or 3/4" rebar with plastic is most common in most areas that I've worked, but 3/4" iron pipe with cap of the same material is nearly ubiquitous in the foothills where I now do most of my work.

I decided to go with 1" GIP & brass just to make them stand out a little better.

[Gromatici]

We set 1.5"GSP (Galvanized Steel Pipes) or 2" GSP with 2" or 3" Brass Caps for rancho's and larger tracts and use the 1" GSP with 2" brass caps for the smaller surveys. They even sell 1.5" Brass Caps that might fit better on the 1" or 3/4" pipes.

The "miniplugs" aren't fastened by screws, they should be inserted and adhesive or concrete put into the pipe. They can also be used for inserting into concrete curbs, walls and sidewalks as the case may be.

At $5 per cap plus the pipe, it's really not much at all to spend for monuments, but the alum. Caps are a cheaper solution.

I haven't seen the Galvanized rebar either. That galvanized steel lasts forever!

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I was vaguely aware of that. Thanks for the warning, Dave.

[Ric7308]

So Dave,

Did you Dad have a lot of galvanized pipe laying around for you to cut up...just because he wanted you to drink milk?

Ric

[PLS7393]

So Dave,

Did you Dad have a lot of galvanized pipe laying around for you to cut up...just because he wanted you to drink milk?

Ric

He must of Ric, because Dave is one healthy guy!

[btaylor]

Okay well I staked my first boundary with the Berntsen aluminum caps over 3/4" iron pipes, with bad results. They have to provide you with some type of driver for the pipes, because any tiny amount of mushrooming of the pipe will prevent you from capping them. They come made to fit over a pipe as if it was never struck, which is not realistic. I was able to set 3 out of 5 on a site, resorting to standard plastic plugs on the other two. I only was able to set the 3 because after screwing up the first one, I used it as a driver for the other two. Since it was aluminum, of course it made for a poor driver, but I was able to make it work, but it made for a very tedious experience.

I also just received my order of the "BP" type copper concrete markers for setting into curbs. These look great, but I could not set them immediately, because, again, Bernsten needs to mention that the drill bit you are getting does not work with the standard 3-pronged chuck that is on my DeWalt drill. It is a Bosch SDS type bit, and the local OSH did not have any type of accessory that I can put in my drill for this. I will have to check some other hardware stores to get something that I can put in a standard chuck that will allow me to use the bit so I can drill the hole.

Berntsen may make nice markers and such, but need to get a clue about informing dummies like me who have this weird notion that I should be able to go out and set them when I get them.

[Jim Frame]

"Bernsten needs to mention that the drill bit you are getting does not work with the standard 3-pronged chuck that is on my DeWalt drill."

Berntsen should probably add some text in the catalog about the SDS shank, though the photo and drawing clearly show it.

You *can* chuck the BPMDRL in a standard 3/8" or 1/2" 3-jaw chuck, though I don't recommend it. When the 2 countersink teeth hit the concrete there's a sudden and marked increase in rotary resistance, and the bit will almost certainly spin in a 3-jaw chuck.

[Ian Wilson]

Has anyone tried the new hammer drills for Lo-Ink?

When I set pipes with my Bosch Demo Hammer, the shoulders are perfect with no mushrooming at all. The mechanical method is much prefered by this 50-year-old hack with a bum shoulder.

[btaylor]

I made several attempts to use that bit anyway, but it would not work. I see that the photo shows the bit features, but I was not familiar with SDS. I use a standard masonry bit for drilling hols for lead and tags, so the SDS bit is not something I had to deal with until now.

I ordered the items over the phone. It would be nice for the guy to ask what drill I use, and mention this aspect. The same with the aspect of the caps and the lack of tolerace for any mushrooming.

It is clear I need purchase some type of driving tool now. The wife/boss/CFO is grumbling that I do not need to set these cool monuments, but the proud surveyor in me greatly prefers these to plastic plugs.

[btaylor]

Hey there Jean! We heard you moved out of state or even Canada - cant remember.

[PLS7393]

. . . The wife/boss/CFO is grumbling that I do not need to set these cool monuments, but the proud surveyor in me greatly prefers these to plastic plugs.

I bet your maps will look even better with the cool monuments, pictures included? Oh wait, you don't have additional space on your maps for a picture. (Sorry Brian, I had to say it)

For those not familiar with BGT Surveying maps, his maps are incredibly thourough with a whole lot of information.

[btaylor]

Oboy, how to respond to those..thanks guys.

Yeah Keith, I figure anywhere that is white space more than a centimeter requires some text or line work. It is important to run through a toner cartridge per ROS. My friends Hewlett and Packard recommended it for some reason.

[Gromatici]

I want to see one! I'm always game to look at good maps.

[btaylor]

Eric, I just sent you an email.

[PLS7393]

Eric, I just sent you an email.

As much info on there, I hope it didn't crash his computer, being such a large file, heheheee!