California Surveyors Forums

Anyone have a good resource for how this will shake out?
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... urvey-foot

Quote from that site:
Deprecation of the Survey Foot, Survey Mile, and Other Measures Derived From the Survey Foot
On December 31, 2022, the 1893 “U.S. survey foot,” as defined in a 1959 Federal Register notice (24 FR 5348, June 30, 1959), will be deprecated as a U.S. national standard of measurement and its use is to be avoided. The 1893 definition of the “U.S. survey foot” will be retained for historic reference but will be deemed obsolete. This notice also applies to the “U.S. survey mile” (equal to approximately 1609.347 meters), which is based on the “U.S. survey foot,” the use of which should also be avoided after December 31, 2022 and which will be retained for historical purposes but will be deemed obsolete. After December 31, 2022, any data derived from or published as a result of surveying, mapping, or any other activity within the U.S. that is expressed in terms of feet shall only be based on the “foot” equal to 0.304 8 meter (exactly), formerly known as the “international foot” in the 1959 Federal Register notice.

Emphasis mine.

I don't see how it will be a benefit to switch to the international foot until we get the new NGS datums/reference frames. Shifting all of my SPC coords that are in feet 10-15 feet seems not worthwhile. Until then I expect to continue using the US Survey Foot. That said, I kinda feel bad breaking the law....

Mikey Mueller, PLS 9076
Sonoma County

PS I guess will be using the US Surveyor Zombie Foot. Since it just wont die...

Mikey,

Both NGS and NIST have stated that until SPCS2022 is released (some time in 2025) that if your survey is based on NAD83 and SPC you should continue to use the US Survey Foot and that NSRS will continue to accept submittals in US Survey Feet until the official rollout of the new Datum.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... urvey-foot

As Bryan said, whether you are working in CCS83 today, or in 2053, the definition of the official foot will remain the US Survey Foot per Section 8810 of the PRC. DO NOT use the International Foot now when working in NAD83/CCS83, or EVER. To do so will be a mistake and a violation of 8810.

This is an email from Dr. Michael Dennis, PE, PLS, NGS SPC2022 Project Manager, to me this morning regarding what apparently is already confusing some surveyors. Lots of hyperlinks in there that likely have been lost by pasting the content, but still accessible for those who are interested.

Hi Scott,

You are correct, NGS (and NIST) are NOT telling states that use the U.S. survey foot (sft) for SPCS 83 (or SPCS 27) to start using the international foot (ift) at this time, despite deprecation of the sft on 12/31/2022.
States currently using the sft for SPCS 83 should continue to do so. The ift will be used for all zones in every state for SPCS2022 (and every other component of the National Spatial Reference System), but that won’t be implemented until 2025.
The reason for continuing to use the sft for SPCS 83 is that it is an existing “legacy” system, and it would cause too much disruption to change the foot definition. NGS will always support the sft for SPCS 83 in states that have officially adopted the sft for SPCS 83, even after SPCS2022 has been implemented. The same is true for SPCS 27 in all states.
More information and resources about this topic that you may find helpful are given below. Since this is a recurring topic of confusion, please feel free to share this information far and wide!
• You may have already seen the “final determination” Federal Register Notice (FRN) on deprecation of the sft issued on 10/5/2020 (https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... urvey-foot). But if you have not read it closely and in its entirety, I encourage you to do so. It contains a lot of information that may answer your questions. The FRN includes information on the continued use of sft for legacy applications (such as SPCS 83). That is stated in the last paragraph of the “Notice of Final Determination” section; in items #1 and #2 in the “Counterpoints to Feedback Expressing Opposition” section; and in the second paragraph of the “Implementation Summary and Actions” section.
• The legacy issue is also addressed in the 10th FAQ on the NIST website (https://www.nist.gov/pml/us-surveyfoot/ ... tions-faqs) and in the 11th FAQ on our “new datums” FAQs web page (https://geodesy.noaa.gov/datums/newdatu ... tums.shtml).
• The 40 states that officially adopted the sft for SPCS 83 are listed in Table C.1 of Appendix C of NOAA Special Publication NOS NGS 13, “The State Plane Coordinate System History, Policy, and Future Directions” (https://geodesy.noaa.gov/library/pdfs/SP_NOS_NGS_13.pdf).
• Information on NSRS legislation that includes foot definitions is available under item #5 on the new datums “Get Prepared” web page (https://geodesy.noaa.gov/datums/newdatu ... ared.shtml). There is a legislation template (https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.nsps.us.com/r ... -Templ.pdf), as well as actual new legislation from several states that can serve as examples (https://geodesy.noaa.gov/pub/SPCS/ExampleLegislation/).
• The final determination FRN is itself not actually a law, although Congress has passed several laws giving the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) the authority to maintain national standards of measurement. These and other related federal laws are given in the initial sft FRN issued on 10/17/2019 (https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... urvey-foot).
People will continue to use SPCS 83 at least until SPCS2022 is rolled out in 2025. Those states using the sft for SPCS 83 should continue to do so. That means they should continue to use the sft in their equipment and associated software (such as GIS and CAD). Situations may occur after 2022 where an organization uses custom (non-SPCS) coordinate systems. In such cases, my recommendation is to use the sft if it is also being used for SPCS 83. Trying to manage a partial switch (where some things use the ift and others use the sft at the same time) could cause confusion and lead to mistakes. This is in keeping with the “orderly transition” idea stated in the final determination FRN. We understand that the transition may take some time for certain organizations, and that’s OK. The most important part is that it occurs in an orderly fashion. Over time use of the sft will diminish, and we expect that to accelerate after SPCS2022 is released in 2025.
On Nov 10, I also be gave a webinar on deprecation of the sft and the status of SPCS2022 (https://geodesy.noaa.gov/web/science_ed ... 2022.shtml).

Cheers,

Michael

Always know what datum your data is based on, and where you are going, and you'll be fine. Deprecating US survey foot will eventually remove one more datum to worry about... unless we end up using low distortion projections and end up with a few dozen of new datums in who knows what units and based on who knows what adjustment based on who knows what geoid definition... just keep good track of how you got from A to B.

This is an email from Dr. Michael Dennis, PE, PLS, NGS SPC2022 Project Manager, to me

Thanks for posting that, Scott. I reposted it on SurveyorConnect in response to a question on the same topic.

Maybe the Metric System is lookin' better and better ???

Stay dry folks . . . this one's a biggie.

Crazy Phil Surveyor-to-Metrics & Recorder!

I did submit an article on this subject to the California Surveyor on September 1st. Hopefully we will see it soon.

The majority of the referenced material was from Dr. Michael Dennis including links to recorded webinars.