California Surveyors Forums

It is interesting to see the topics other states are covering. Instead of discussing the technical points of GPS and how fast light travels, Indiana is covering a lot of practices issues, arguably of bigger importance to the surveying profession, including:

So, is Boundary Evidence Becoming Less Relevant to the Surveyor?

What is the Future of Professional Surveying?

The Land Surveyors Professional Obligations – The Future of the Field Surveyor

Boundary Line Agreements & Boundary Line Adjustments

Liability Associated with Reversionary Lines

Running a Successful Surveying Business – New Challenges and New Markets

Fading Footsteps

Measurement is Dead

Professional Conduct for Land Surveyors

Ethics and the Professional Surveyor: NSPS Creed and Canons

All of the topics have to be pre-approved to satisfy continuing education requirements, something California does not require. If my memory serves me properly, California is the only state that does not require continuing education. Regrettably, it shows.

/sarcasm on
that might be a wee bit too high falutin' for these parts
/sarcasm off

"Sore-chasm" would be better.

well, if it is of any consolation, some of grumbling seems to have gotten a bit of traction. Give it time.
Hey, I am probably going to be the local chapter VP this year. :)

We need Business Planning or Land Surveyors seminar/talk too, or a small series of talks about business of business.

I know some people are laughing at me for talking about business planning, but look...
https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.marylandsurve ... eying_.pdf

CBarrett wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:54 pm /sarcasm on
that might be a wee bit too high falutin' for these parts
/sarcasm off

Insulting people is not a good way to encourage participation.

Edward M Reading wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:05 pm

CBarrett wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:54 pm /sarcasm on
that might be a wee bit too high falutin' for these parts
/sarcasm off

Insulting people is not a good way to encourage participation.

That comment you made should go both ways. It's not only what I say to your potential friends that is insulting. It goes the other way around as well when the comment in question was directed at me.
For example, I didn't see you jumping up and down when this comment was directed at me a week or two ago, but now when I repeat the comment directed at me, it is suddenly insulting??? Seriously, could you possibly be any more obvious at cosigning people's BS?

I would appreciate it if you would move along and go patronize someone else, you can't be counted on being objective around here.

I'm really not interested in encouraging participation by disrespectful and insulting people who cry when they are treated in kind.

One topic that may be of interest is that of employment contracts. When a licensee leaves or is let go from an employer, there may be unfinished projects that responsibility for filing a record of survey, for example, may fall upon said former employee.
This should be spelled out at hiring.

Warren, that is a great topic! I like it a great deal!

CALIFORNIA LAND SURVEYORS
California professional land surveyors are not required to complete PDH. California professional land surveyors licenses are renewed every two years from the assigned renewal date.

Board Website: http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/

Continuing education:

I am happy to know that outside of CLSA there is a number of surveyors who actively participate in self-imposed continued education efforts (I participate in several of these groups).

CLSA has lost a lot of ground on the subject, and unfortunately it shows. Some of the skills and knowledge which is considered rather basic at my work seem to be rejected as too complicated here. I can see how some of our members are cynical and have gone as far as getting rather jaded.

However, on the flip side of things, California is not a very homogenous mix of interests when it comes to commercial interests (in a sense of, Land Surveying as is governed by BPLSG is a commercial interest, under the umbrella of the department of consumer affairs). Agricultural and rural areas don't have the need or resources to keep up with the concerns which are pressing in suburban and more metropolitan areas.

Maybe we need to give some thought to actually finding a way to classify and formalize regional concerns. I understand that initially California legislative language was left somewhat vague to give professionals in large variety of areas sufficient autonomy to govern their areas in a manner suitable and productive to those areas.

It looks like this has left us vulnerable in several ways. Metropolitan areas seem to be pushing for tighter legislation which, they hope will afford them more protection from cross disciplinary's assaults and looming threats. Areas which are not being threatened as much are resistant to changes, which are unnecessary for their functioning, and are resentful of the ide of rising costs and effort, where they are already having difficulties in this arena.

We need to try and figure out an approach that can accommodate both. To resort to a cliché, a win/win of some sort.

Yes, I agree! Please continue this discussion! I would add more but I am very busy,

Mike, We should build you a video library of your articles, making it similar to TED talks or something suitable for contemporary media. Unless you have something of the sort in the works already.

I like the list you came up with. We need more practical topics/discussions for the land surveying profession like boundary determinations, day to day business operations, etc. and less of the latest technology stuff like scanning, drones and GPS.

When I was more active with CLSA, I worked on a lot of the conferences and over the years, I have proposed a variety of topics, akin to Curt Brown and Don Wilson. In these so-called modern times, the CLSA Board of Directors and conference committees have rejected these ideas.

On the other side of the coin, by invitation, I lecture around the country on these topics. Why is that?

It is my opinion that these are valuable topics and with the encroachment into what some believe is our "exclusive" domain - measuring things - we are losing ground every day. Our role as Masters of Measurement is rapidly growing obsolete. In order for us to survive, we must enhance our intellectual skills so we are abreast of business practices and expanding areas of practice such as preparation of grading plans, becoming proficient in GIS, being a team leader (wherein we control product management), and boundary analysis.

There are many wonderful opportunities if the association is interested in pursuing them.

Until there is a philosophical shift in what we do, we shall continue to study the speed of light and the movement of satellites.

I wrote the attached article ten years ago.

mpallamary wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:09 pm When I was more active with CLSA, I worked on a lot of the conferences and over the years, I have proposed a variety of topics, akin to Curt Brown and Don Wilson. In these so-called modern times, the CLSA Board of Directors and conference committees have rejected these ideas.

I've been attending the BOD meetings regularly for 4 or 5 years (aka modern times) and I don't recall ever seeing you at a meeting. I appreciate your past contributions and I'm sure they were substantial. While I don't know much about the conference committee, all I see from you lately is a bunch of grumbling on this forum about how no one listens to your ideas and CLSA is not doing enough. I do recall you speaking at a conference a few years ago (Anaheim 2018 maybe?) so someone must have accepted your ideas pretty recently.

While I appreciate the articles you write and I agree with many of your ideas and I might have even voted for you to become a life member of CLSA that time a few years ago when you nominated yourself, I find this claim that the CLSA Board of Directors rejected your ideas to be disingenuous.

Please show up at a Board meeting and say your piece or forever hold your peace but don't spew a bunch of nonsense on the forum, it's not helpful

Most surveyors have never been to court and if they are wise, they stay away from the courthouse. That being said, at some point in time, one my find themselves in the halls of justice either testifying or being sued. This is a fascinating topic of interest to many. Curt Brown had a lot to say about this many years ago. How many modern surveyors are comfortable in a courtroom?

Hi David,

Thanks for weighing in! There is a reason for all of this. I suggest you take some time to learn why. It will be an eye opener. The life member issue was also an argument for a specific reason.

I do appreciate your comments, more than you can imagine! Please look deeply into what is going on and why.

Please.

David, please PM me your email address.

Happy Holidays!

mpallamary wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:09 pm When I was more active with CLSA, I worked on a lot of the conferences and over the years, I have proposed a variety of topics, akin to Curt Brown and Don Wilson. In these so-called modern times, the CLSA Board of Directors and conference committees have rejected these ideas.

On the other side of the coin, by invitation, I lecture around the country on these topics. Why is that?

I am going to venture a guess based on historical performance of many 'groups of people', it comes down to politics. I see that everywhere

Who is Stan Myron?

It is much more than politics and petty egos. Much, much more!

Who is Stan Myron?

David,
Mike Pallamary is a very very long standing member of CLSA. He has been active on the board of directors etc when you and probably I were still in diapers. I don't know when you started your surveying career, I see your LS number is 9000's, and I don't believe you are like me where you spent 15+ years being pissed off at the establishment and not bothering to get licensed and doing engineering instead, so I expect you are probably in your mid 30's to mid 40's at most, and have not been around during Mike's heyday.

Mike should be a lifetime member of CLSA.
Mike is also very outspoken and eloquent, and smarter than most surveyors. Maybe you haven't had a chance to learn this yet but when someone is assertive and independent past a certain degree, they don't do well within the establishment politics. This has happened to many people. This is not all that unique to this association either.

Sometimes democratic process unintentionally leads to mediocracy. This is in part why CLSA is having trouble right now.

I have lived though the eras where many forward thinking surveyors have been outed from CLSA and rejected. Lack of continued education requirement in California is one of those. Among others, I have seen those battles in person, and I have known and worked for several of those people as a youngster LSIT in late 80's and early 90's and beyond. Being a youngster female whose 'job was to sit and listen ad do as I am told' I have been privy to may tirades. I've even been yelled at and berated (before the days of much stronger HR policies) for having worked for the 'opponent' few years prior and 'brainwashed' by them etc etc, and even having taken their formal classes was sometimes counted against me, by their opponents. Today, that would be outright harassment. in late 80's, not so much.

To see Mike talk about his ideas rejected is an extremely mild version of what I actually saw happen. I would strongly suggest being much more open minded regarding what Mike is talking about.

Also FYI, I am on the OC board of directors, and Mike has been invited and participates on our board, as a public observer most of the times, there have even been times where we moved to suspend the rules to give him a more formal voice. His a valued adviser.