California Surveyors Forums

Amador County is asking me to sign an agreement to get digital copies of filed survey maps. The agreement basically says I won't share the maps with anyone else. This makes my blood boil. Those maps are public record. I don't mind paying for the cost of duplication, but I shouldn't have to sign a burdensome legal agreement to get digital copies.

Has anyone else run into this in other counties? How did you handle it?

I thought I'd get some feedback before I send the county a FIFA request for the digital copies of the maps. If someone knows the County Surveyor in Amador and can do some outreach before I need to get serious, I'd appreciate that as well.

Landon

I've attached a copy of my Public Records Act Request in Microsoft Word format in case anyone else wants to use it as a template. If you have a local government agency requiring execution of an agreement to access public records or data, including GIS data, please let me know. I'd like to put together a list and get letters out to all of them.

Landon

I agree with you but there are bigger fish to fry. Pick your battles :). My 2 cents, Jp

What does the agreement look like ?

Since it is not proprietary information, but rather as you point out, public information, I don't think they can legally do that.

Is this a standard agreement they make people sign for all public record requests or is it specific to maps? Agencies are touchy about giving out public records because they could end up in the hands of a lawyer. That's why they make people sign for stuff so they know where it is going and for what purpose.

Landon,
Upload the complete set to The Pirate Bay!

I've seen some Caltrans districts require a signed form prior to getting RW maps. I think it was District 6, 9 and 10 that I saw it from.

Attached is Caltrans District 4 requirement for hardcopy maps, etc...

The H maps typically have all of the evidence that they discovered for the land net when they were purchasing the right of way. This evidence can be invaluable for a proper retracement, but you have to know it exists and ask. District 4 used to never filed in lieu maps or record of surveys to perpetuate the evidence they discovered like most agencies in the bay area.

Both of the Caltrans Agreements begin with:

"WHEREAS, the California Department of Transportation (herein “DEPARTMENT”) agrees to provide the following entity certain information which is confidential, privileged, protected, or exempted from public inspection (herein “Information”): " [emphasis not in original]

All of the other provisions of the 3+ page document are applicable only within that context. If they provide something that is not ""confidential, privileged, protected, or exempted from public inspection", then none of it applies. There is actually not much that an agency produces that falls within those definitions. There is nothing an agency is likely to provide for an informal or even a formal Public Records Request that falls under those definitions. There may be some things that would be discoverable in litigation that might otherwise fall under one or more of those categories.

Anything that is filed in the recorder's office is a public record that statutorily is available for public inspection. I'm not entirely certain, but I think that there are laws about reproducing public records for resale, and that an agency has the authority to restrict reproduction for that purpose. But I would be very surprised if an agency has authority to prevent someone from providing free copies to others.

Landon, this section of the CA PRA may be of use:

"6257.5.
This chapter does not allow limitations on access to a public record based upon the purpose for which the record is being requested, if the record is otherwise subject to disclosure."

There are places in the PRA which contain limitations on the sale of certain public records, such as certain persons addresses. However there are no limitations within the state statute regarding survey copies. I would think 6257.5 would prohibit the county from placing a limitation (i.e. agreement to limit use) on your acquisition of said records.

Govt agencies constantly act outside the law, a little here a little there, then it's president. To properly control govt every time they try and act outside the law they need to be put back in their place. If we as citizens, and professionals dependent on public records, don't do it who will?

land butcher wrote:Govt agencies constantly act outside the law, a little here a little there, then it's president. To properly control govt every time they try and act outside the law they need to be put back in their place. If we as citizens, and professionals dependent on public records, don't do it who will?

That isn't limited to government agencies, not by a long shot.

I mean Exxon drove a ship into the rocks and destroyed a lot of Natural Resources. The private sector breaks laws every day.

These are public records. The law is clear. They were paid for with tax dollars.

Go ask the City of Encinitas.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/new ... ds-appeal/

See attachments. Do not sign the form - it is not a legal form.

Public records are public records. Once a document is submitted or is in possession of a public agency, by law it is a PUBLIC RECORD; it is owned by the public and not any individual, department, or agency.