California Surveyors Forums

Greetings;

An Attorney has requested and ALTA for his clients property.
The attorney stated to me that a "boundary" survey was NOT needed, nor was a topo required, in fact, NONE of the items under schedule "a" were required for this "ALTA"

I compiled a fair price for a minimum standard ALTA
The attorney stated that my numbers were about twice of expected.

He wants me to simply plot the boundary from the title report and deed, plot the easements/exceptions etc then stamp and sign and give it to the listed parties.

Question: Is there really such a thing as a "paper" ALTA ???

if so, are there some fantastic qualifier notes that indicates NO Survey was done and therefore encroachments or other features may exist on the property ???

Has anyone ever done a "Paper" ALTA ???

I've never heard of it, however, the world is indeed changing

Thanks

"Good" and slightly confused

Send him a copy of the current ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey standards ask him to review it and to point out to you what provision(s) in these standards allow for the survey product that he is requesting.

If he really wants to save money he can have a title company plot their title data on an assessor's map.

A surveyor could create a record data exhibit,and charge for that, but there is no way that type of service is a "survey" nor would any title company accept it as an ALTA survey.

There is a reason WHY we actually conduct a survey on the ground.

"Good" grief! Ask the attorney if he will represent you in court for free when that "survey" comes back to bite you. It's obviously a commercial property, so is the Lender going to be satisfied with the, almost non-existent amount of data. Property is not that cheap out in Modesto that they would not want to know if there encroachments, easement or boundary issues. Dane has the right idea. Send the attorney a copy of the ALTA standards and have him create his scope from there.

Say Hi to the "Boss" for me!

Thanks Guys
I will do exactly THAT . . send the ALTA etc standards.
I may also forward an iquiry to the title officer to get his/her response.

Yes Scott

The Boss says "Hello" . . . .how's he doing ?


Thanks. (^_^)
Dave

To be clear, the following is taken from the last sentence of the third paragraph:

"A complete 2011 ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey includes the on-site fieldwork required under Section 5 herein, the preparation of a plat or map showing the results of the fieldwork and its relationship to record documents as required under Section 6 herein, any information in Table A herein that may have been negotiated with the client, and the certification outlined in Section 7 herein."

In order for a Land Title Survey to meet the standards per the ALTA/ACSM Land Title Survey Minimum Standards must be based on a field survey conducted to proper standards of care to determine the boundary from sufficient field evidence. Simply paring a survey based on record information is not permitted undere the standards. Preparing a survey from record information "fitted" to a couple of street monuments is not sufficient, either.

Since you, as the surveyor, will be signing a certificate that states that you have meet ALL the minimum standards, you have a duty to your client, yourself and your license to ensure that you actually do meet ALL the minimum standards.

If you have any questions as to what those standards are or how to meet them, please educate yourself BEFORE offering serivces outside your area of experience.

An ALTA/ACSM LTS is first and foremost a BOUNDARY SURVEY. It can't be a Land Title SURVEY without there being a field SURVEY involved, it can't adequately reflect anything pertinent to title unless the actual locations of the limits of written title (a.k.a., the boundary) are properly determined.

I'd really like to know who is offering ALTA surveys that aren't really surveys.

I have created them before, the first couple I did was under another LS's direction.
WE DID NOT CALL THEM ALTA SURVEYS.

I forget what the first couple were called.

The one I did I called it a record data easement plot. And listed the record map and easement recording data. I should state this was for a client considering buying a piece of commercial property and no attorneys involved.

I've heard of them referred to as something like an "Encumbrance Map".

Record calcs, easements plotted and that's it.

I don’t really think the attorney want an ALTA Survey. I think he is confused in calling it that.

He may just want a simple plot map with all the record data shown on in, much like a tentative map. It should be pretty simple with an updated title report.

And a statement on the map saying something like – “All the data shown herein is compiled of record data and no field work was done”. And mention the title report.

Good – I think it would go a long ways to simply ask the attorney what exactly he want and offer him ideas of how he may achieve that.

My thoughts.

I guess you could ask him if he has changed his mind?

I am not suggesting that anyone CERTIFY anything other than what they have actually done. If you prepare and ALTA to the current standards, certify to THAT.