California Surveyors Forums

Hypothetical question

A LS applicant has sufficient experience. During his years of experience he only had 4 references, outside of a immediate family LS, and one of the four is dead or moved to places unknown.

How does this applicant satisfy the 4 reference requirement?

You do not have to work for the individual.

If another LS is familiar with the applicants work, they can be a reference.

The applicant could review a couple of jobs with an LS mentor to demonstrate competency.

Applicant could work with potential reference on one job to demonstrate competency to sit for exam.


At least 4 references have to sign off that the candidate has the requisite experience to sit for the exam. If one of the references only worked with the candidate when he was a rod person and they can't state that the person qualifies to sit for the exam, the reference wont count for the requisite experience to sit.

If you have exhausted lines one and two, lines 3 and 4 would require a substantial amount of time to do and non perceived deadlines do not always allow for much time.

I was in a similar situation, my employer and the County Surveyor we the only two LS who had adequate knowledge of my experience.

My employer was gracious enough to hire a LS for a week long job to work alongside me, he then served as a 3rd reference.

My employer then “hooked me upâ€￾ with a college of his who sat down with me (after he reviewed samples of my work over the weekend) and we went through a 4 hour interview. He served as my 4th reference.

Be creative. I had one LS vouching for about 95% of my time, one for about 5% and two references that I had part time experience with. The part time references could not be used for my qualifying time but served as character references. Be creative, ask a favor or two, and see what the board comes back with.

I personally believe the Board to be understanding. Contact them and ask for advice.

That requirement has always made me wonder about the second generation that has never worked outside the family business. How to get references?

I've known a number of applicants who have had similar issues and the Board has provided advice on how to get the necessary references.
Good Luck!

Your local Chapter members can provide you advice on this issue.

References:

Do you consider the Applicant technically qualified to practice as a licensed Professional Land Surveyor?

Explain in detail all responses marked with an asterisk in this section. Also, include any additional information about the Applicant's land surveying experience, capabilities, or limitations. ATTACH ADDITIONAL SHEETS IF NEEDED. If you and the applicant currently have different employers, please explain how you know of the applicant’s experience.

and: I certify under penalty of perjury that I have read and understand the laws, rules, and regulations regarding licensure as a Professional Land Surveyor relative to this applicant’s qualifications and that this document accurately reflects my opinion and knowledge of the applicant’s
qualifications, professional integrity, ability, and fitness to be licensed as a Professional Land Surveyor. I also certify under penalty of perjury that
I am authorized to practice land surveying and that the forgoing statements are true and correct to the best of my knowledge.

I'll be taking the exam for the first time this April, and so I recently underwent the process of collecting references. Something that was new to me is the "LS Logbook". It's similar to the reference forms included in the application, but may be filled out at the end of an engagement and submitted with the application at a later date. That way, if contact is lost with a prior associate who may have served as a reference, the applicant may submit the form to demonstrate prior experience.

http://www.pels.ca.gov/pubs/forms/ls_logbook_2010.pdf

Not knowing the individual, I would be very cautious to sign as a reference if I didn't know the individual. I have signed for someone more as a character witness, but specified on the application he/she had never worked directly under my surveyors license. I guess the Board accepted my reference, because they are now licensed.

I also know of at least one surveyor who never once set foot in the dirt on a field crew, but others signed for them. They have had a license now for a long time running a company. Is this the type of individual we want licensed?

Personally I do not think a short (4 hour) interview would give me the confidence to sign as a reference to satisfy minimum competency as a land surveyor. Please remember the Board is testing to find individuals who eventually will be conducting business to "Protect the Public".

Ask yourself if you want your name associated with this individual in case they do something wrong and ends up in court? I heard some states list the references for a land surveyor after they receive a license. CA should look into this and post references associated with individuals after one passes the exam. A very easy task which may deter those fraudulent references, just a thought here!

If you have worked closely with a County Surveyor that has been aware for years that you are doing the field and office work that He is examining, you have been the one attending the meetings representing the maps and have been the one discussing changes on the map, I am sure He would be more then willing to sign for you. That is if He thinks you are qualified from what He has seen.

Another things is if you have been sub-contracted to do work for another Firm to do Land Surveying as a second Chief, were they are the ones that examine your work.

I ran into this problem myself, as there were only two Licensed Surveyors in the entire County, except the County Surveyor but I had done many subcontracts with another well know California Firm as well. The County Surveyor signed for me as well as the Owner of the other Firm.

Also, Clients that you have done many projects for you, if they have not changed this, can sign for you in some instances.

As one above has stated, the Board can assist you with this as it is a problem that arises many times and does not in any way mean that you are not qualified to be Licensed.

Good Luck

S. Davis Retired LS 4968

Very good suggestions Mr. Davis.