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Use of "PLS"
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:58 pm
by RAM
Just for fun Scott,
Can a pre 82 RCE use the title "PLS"?
Is this a test? Maybe!
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:25 pm
by E_Page
8708: ... only persons licensed under this chapter shall be entitled to take and use the titles "licensed land surveyor", "professional land surveyor", or "land surveyor", or any combination of these words, phrases, or abbreviations thereof.
Pre 82 Civil engineers are exempted from the licensing requirement under this chapter, but they are not licensed under this chapter (Chapter 15 of the B&P Code). They are licensed under Chapter 7 of the B&P Code.
So, No, they may not use any of the titles mentioned under Section 8708.
You Guys come up with the strangest questions sometimes...
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:29 am
by Ric7308
While I had my own viewpoint, I inquired with the all knowing Nancy and surprisingly, she didn't begin her response with "It depends..." It was a very quick answer (Maybe even detected a sore point...hmm).
A Pre-1982 Civil Engineer is authorized to perform land surveying services, but not licensed as a Land Surveyor pursuant to the PLS Act. Which means that the title "PLS" can only be used by an individual licensed under this act.
What do you guys have next?
Ric
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:15 pm
by RAM
Man I love having you all do my homework for me.
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:23 pm
by E_Page
What prize do we get to claim Russ? Are you buying dinner & drinks or some such?
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:45 pm
by RAM
Ice cream for your wife and kids.
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:04 pm
by E_Page
Great! I'll send them your way.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:54 am
by PLS7393
I was hoping this was the start of a new contest called . . .
Stump the Board, heheheee!!!
But then you can't stump the Board, even if their answer isn't the same interpretation as mine. Their assistance and info is always good information!
Thanks!
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:02 am
by RAM
Intertesting, I will have to think some more or get Evan to do some more homework for me. I can see the point, but does that allow a pre 82 RCE to use "PLS" in their letter head?
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:14 am
by Ric7308
Greg: "He goes on to explain that pre-82 engineers often introduce themselves as "surveyors" to their clients and isn't that ok, too?"
Maybe they don't want to be known as an Engineer! Just kidding. Actually, I know an LS that was a CE first and when he obtained his LS license, he rarely refers to himself as an Engineer. Even changed how he lists his occupation in tax returns. Now there is a convert!
As previous comments offered, there is a difference between being "exempt" and being "licensed". I guess technically speaking, a Pre-82 CE could refer to themselves as "a Civil Engineer with additional authorization to practice Land Surveying".
Interesting enough, BPELS does have a legal opinion related to Section 6747 which could be an indication on how this issue would be interpreted, which exempts people from having to be licensed as electrical or mechanical engineers for the "performance of engineering work," but does not include the right to use restricted titles.
Also, has anyone noticed under Section 6704, that Photogrammetric Surveyors have the right to use the title of "Consulting Engineer"? Interesting...wonder how that got in there?
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:05 pm
by E_Page
I can understand why an engineer might want to pass himself off as a Surveyor, but why would a Surveyor, even a photogrammetric one, want to pass oneself off as an engineer???
Egad! Perish the thought!
;-)
I don't really think there is anymore homework to do, Russ. I just go back to Section 8708, which is very clear "... only persons licensed under this chapter..." Last time I checked, engineers were not licensed under this chapter.
Greg,
Remember that your co-worker is an engineer. You may have to read this very slowly to him. Even then, he may not be able to understand it unless you can somehow tabulate the information in Section 8708, Section 8731 (which refers back to the chapter that engineers are licensed under), Article 4 of Chapter 7, and Article 4 of Chapter 15, along with the definitions of the phrases "exempt from" and "licensed under", the terms "right", "privilege", and "title", and get an ANSI standard assigned to it.
Most engineers can understand even fairly complicated information if it is adequately tabulated for them and can be found in a standards manual.
(for any thin-skinned snivel engineers who may read this, lighten up, I'm just yankin' your chain)