California Surveyors Forums

I've come across a situation where a surveyor, circa 1915, began at the south 1/4 corner then went east on the section line a distance which he calculated to be for the 1/16 corner and set a pipe. At a later time, another surveyor ran a course on the section line, west. . the same calculated distance where he set his pipe.

The original 1/4 corner has been destroyed by farming.

During my section breakdown, I discover the section line to be about 12 feet long from the sw corner to the "established" 1/16 corner on the west half and 14 feet long on the east half respectively.

The difference between reestablishing the 1/4 corner between the se and sw section corners and between the "1/16" corners is about a foot. I believe the best retracement for the 1/4 corner position is between the two old pipes which once referenced the original monument.

The Deputy County surveyor believes I should toss the old 1/16th pipe altogether and resubdivide the south line of the section into 4 equal parts.
This will in essence move two established and traditionally used monuments about 13' more or less.

I strongly disagree with the deputy on this. These old pipes have been used by surveyors and property owners for nearly a decade.

Am I way off base ? The Client is in a hurry for this Parcel Map for refinancing purposes.

Cornileous "corn" Feuzzed

If I'm reading your description correctly, you have not one but two accessories to the original south quarter corner: the 1915 pipe to the east and the pipe subsequently set to the west. Using record distances along the section line from the two pipes, you hit the same location for the quarter corner within a foot. That's about as good as it gets.

Reestablishment by proportionate measurement is for lost corners. Your quarter corner isn't lost, its merely obliterated, and its position can be restored by measurement from the two pipes. If the Deputy County Surveyor is suggesting that the 1-foot uncertainty is large enough to declare the corner lost, I think it's time to send him back to school.

Resolving the proper location for the 1/16 corners might require a little more information.

Mr. Cornfeuzzed,

Does your County Surveyor have a license to survey?

I read your description of the situation the same as Jim does and agree with him 100%. I can hardly believe that any licensed surveyor would seriously suggest not only using proportionate measurement in such a situation, but also tossing out reasonably set, decades old and relied upon, record monuments in favor of using the "method of last resort".

It's a darn good thing that the Feds declared that original GLO monuments, once accepted by the Surveyor General are to be presumed correct. Otherwise, some surveyors would be resurveying every section starting from the initial point in order to "correct" what the original surveyor screwed up.

I'm glad to be thinking on the same tract as you guys. This one I thought, was a fairly simple "restore" of the 1/4 corner.

Now the question is. . . do I accept the "witness" pipes as being the true 1/16 corners ? or must I split the resulting "half" section. It is very apparent that the Olde timers divided the 79.9 chains into quarters to arrive at about 1318.35 feet when they went east and west respectively. They indeed did not remeasure the "half" mile and split it accordingly.

These old pipes, wrongly placed or not, have been used for decades as Property corners against deeds which call for a "1/4 of a 1/4" (or the 1/16)

The property which I'm dealing with is the sw1/4 of the sw1/4 AND the nw1/w of the nw1/4 of section (x) a regular standard government section.

I believe these corners should be held as long standing positions and accepted by property owners. It may be true that these pipes are not the true 1/16 corners but occupation lines would differ from deed lines by 6 feet.

I personally visited the jobsite.

Going to the "bogus" 1/16th corner location, I eyeballed down a field division levee, irrigation boxes and some power poles.
I made a side-foot scratch in the dirt, and told my crew that "this is parole evidence of a property line.

They calculated a 1/4 division from the measured section line, dug up the old pipe and measured west to a spot half a foot from my scratch.

We didnt find any monument but we do have cause to place the 1/16 corner at the fourth division as per manual of instructions. We have ample parole evidence.
The old pipe may be a property corner for property to the south, but my client and his neighbor definately occupy to the measured 1/16th line, without argument.

My young field crew now knows the difference of parole evidence vs. "I think it followed the road or crops or anything they "thought" "

The crew also understands that they must collect enough evidence to allow best judgement to prevail. and NOTE EVERYTHING.

today the graduate from button pushing monkeys, to button pushing humanoids.

No matter the instrument, FIELD NOTES MUST BE TAKEN.

This forces any crew to inverse on the spot.

signed
"Old Lady in the shoe"