California Surveyors Forums

I guess the answer would be "no"....

Sorry it took so long for me to respond, I've been out of town.

First off, Marin County hasn’t been very trustworthy in the past with old records, which weren’t filed at the recorders. Some were scanned illegibly, but it seems most have been thrown out. Even the recorded records, which have been scanned, are illegible in many instances.

When the first archive became available, a couple of other firms and I were afraid someone would purchase the archive and not allow access to them. Because of the possible threat of losing this valuable archive, we formed a partnership to purchase the records. I maintained the majority interest and paid for the office. A short time later, after incurring the costs of storage and cataloging, it was decided that it was more fair to me if I bought them out, since they weren’t interested with the long term interest of cataloging and rent and it would be difficult to quantify each others contributions or lack thereof.

The other main archive I have was an old company that I began working for in 1979 and continued to do their field work until they closed a couple of years ago. It is a very poor investment given the time it will take to catalog the jobs properly. The owner was someone I have known since I was 9 and probably would have given them to me. He had enough of trying to make ends meet in this business and just wanted out. I bought all of the business that he didn’t want (he kept a few keep sakes, ie his trusty slide rule – batteries never went dead). I did it because he needed financial help as well as emotional help. The last thing he needed to do was to take an office he’d been associated with for 60 years and take it to the local landfill.

Believe me these records do not make me money. I’m just trying to offset some of the costs. The last owner of the main archive went back to public practice.

However all of the archives I have and those that are accessible in Marin have produced evidence, which allowed me to properly retrace the footsteps of the original surveyors. It astonishes me that other surveyors will attempt to survey in an area without obtaining the records. During my research, I’ve listed the surveys in the area of my ROS so others will have a head start by knowing they exist and many still wont obtain the records.

Yes, I charge $300.00 for the access fee and time and material to pull the documents, drop off at the repro center for copying / scanning them and filing the documents. I also charge my clients the fee and time it takes. The costs are driven from my rent/overhead for the archive office $800.00 per month, the initial cost of the records, the ongoing cataloging which costs me about 10 k per year, presently.

Unfortunately, about 15% of the records are not properly cataloged on the main archive and about 70% on the other archive of my old firm, which just cataloged based on name and not AP or address. We are reviewing every document and entering it into our database. After that we’ll be able to place the documents in a less expensive storage facility. Before that, if I can afford it and a good retrieval system is in place, I loved to have the files scanned.

Unfortunately, in this economy I don’t have the manpower or the money to work on the archive.

Thanks Larry - I just wanted to poke you because the thread goes down and out of sight - you have a more involved issue than I had initially thought, and seems pretty unique.

Here in SM County we do not have as significant an issue, and there is a local who has records of one of the early (but generally not original - one would call him often among the "first" or secondary retracers) of subdivisions and so his records are already archived by the standard practices of that time (red penciled in job #s on a subdivision map in a flat file). Much easier to research that way, and they fit in the his office, and researching is fairly straight forward. This is what I had envisioned with yours.

Thanks for the info Larry. It's great that these files are being preserved and it's too bad the county can't be relied on to donate these files to. Hopefully a better way can be made to inform the surveyors practicing in these areas that the records are available, but they need to know who to contact to find them. Sounds like there is a lot of work involved to research, archive, and copy them.

As I mentioned, it took me 18 months to index nearly 5000 survey records I acquired from an old time surveyor. When I acquired them, they were in disarray as they were stored in a garage. After purchasing them, I spent $800 a month to store them. We are presently getting them into our GIS so we can retrieve them and by doing this, they are in fact made available to the community. All you have to do is call. It is that simple.

I tried donating material to the County and the City and many of the documents were destroyed and they threw out the good stuff! "Just save the maps! Who needs the notes?" they said in defense of their actions.

At the city or county, in most cases, the task of sorting through this information is delegated to an entry level individual who has no experience with any of it. Here in the City of San Diego, the folks who now maintain the survey records do not know what a field book is, they do not know what a tie point is and they do not understand why anyone would want to take a look at that "dusty old book" in the back room.

If you need the records of the old survey notes I have, give me a call or drop me a note. There is no magic to it. If you cannot afford to pay me for the time it took to organize these records and the cost it takes to store them I will waive the fee based on hardship.

The point is, they are here for the asking and they are maintained in a much better manner than any municipality will do.

PS, I think I am going to have to raise my recovery and research fees to $300 to keep up with Larry. As an aside, because of the cost to recover these and other records, I have a standard archive retrieval fee built into all of my contracts. After 90 days from the closure of any and all projects, if a client wants me to retrieve a file or some records, there is a standard contract fee of $150.00. It doesn't matter what the reason. It takes time and effort to recover this stuff.

Corner Records - You'll notice a lot of 2 point surveys. Typically, they have not shown enough information to properly resolve the boundary. Many are in old subdivision maps which showed no monuments to control the lines, but subsequent surveyors will find a couple of bits of evidence of a possible property boundary and place monuments based on calculations only.

http://www.co.marin.ca.us/SysApps/Corners/index.cfm


Assessor's parcel information - ownership etc...
http://www.co.marin.ca.us/depts/AR/compass/index.asp

Howdy,

I have been working on a research booklet for sometime and with the advent of the Internet, I have been slowly converting my research efforts over into a website.

We are in the process of developing more content and links and we hope to provide more detailed information about unique areas of the state along with its varied counties and cities. I am also trying to locate any unique articles or references about surveying problems across the state.

I am hoping that if any of us are working in a new area, we will be better equipped to conduct our research as well as having the ability to consult with local land surveyors who may have a better understanding of their region as well as how to locate private survey records.

If you have any comments or suggestions, you can email them to:
suggestions@tiepoints.com

Thanks

Great site Mike! Have you incorporated the links established in the previously attached "Websites.doc"?

I have gathered a lot of information Ben. Let me look at it to be sure.
You are most kind.

Here is a link to their site...

They have ties, benchmarks, sewer, storm, water and utility maps all on their Public Works page.

http://www.ci.loma-linda.ca.us/asp/Site ... /index.asp