Can monuments be reset in a different position

[Ben Lund]

Thanks Ian for the clarification. That makes a lot of sense.

[goodgps]

Now a wonderful point is brought up. When we resurvey old lots and we find original undisturbed monuments, we indicate a measured vs record on our maps. we upgrade/memorialize the lasted measured position, yet we often don't call it wrong and set a new monument a little distance away.
In essence we accept the latest measurement to the NE corner of LOT 1 and hold the monument.
This means that the monument is the position and not the map.
We don't call the old surveyor out to move his monuments.

For a parcel map or subdivision, then, the undisturbed monument is the "deed" position.
For a record of survey, the deed positions remain paramount as the ROS provides no constructive notice.
In which case, should you find a monument to be set at a position not in harmony with a record of survey you may simply tie to it, set your opinion of the deed point position and move on.

I still believe in the courtesy call to a fellow surveyor, however hard liners believe a monument once set, always set, irregardless.
The hard liners have the law behind them.


old dogs learn new tricks, Why ? . . . shock collars !!

[E_Page]

Good,

I agree with you for the most part. But I think we are discussing here a monument in place for less than the statute of limitations and where excessive error can be shown with some definiteness.

[Gromatici]

Here's a thought that is running parallel with this subject: Supervision of crews. According to State Law, we as licensed professionals are to direct, instruct, and supervise those in our charge. Do we have the crews store points for monuments set and compare them to our calculated positions? Do we make field visits to see what they are doing? After the series of article by Lucas where many of the surveyors never visited the site I made a resolution that I would always pay a visit DURING the retracement and after any new monuments were set. (I’m starting to feel that the solo companies where the surveyor actually does the work himself provide a higher level of quality, but that would put me in a funny position being a supervisor!)

Granted, mistakes will still happen, but "running and gunning" is what will introduce many of these problems. I use Star*Net, not to adjust things a couple of thousandths, but to check the crews data. Doubling angles, measuring twice. I learned surveying from a LS who didn’t even want us to double and angle. They are out there, and they will make those mistakes!

I did an RS for a project with 4 feet of overlap between a parcel map and a Record of Survey. The competitor did a record of survey and somebody (from what I could tell) busted an angle and the whole thing was screwed up. That exactly what happened. It created an issue with the neighbors, and everything is settled now, but I suspect it's a classic case of a blunder and the surveyor not ever visiting the site himself.

Anyway, I've got some old pipes I found out of position so I'm going to put them back where they belong- right were the old surveyor wanted them!

I think we’re all on the same page, but my only concern in adjusting a mistake you’ve made is you may think no one has “reliedâ€￾ on the monuments, but if a real estate agent and a buyer walked the site, and see the monuments and then make the sale, that is an action and reliance on those monuments and you would not know it. The client might even remember where they were, and turn you in for “disturbingâ€￾ his monuments! We should be careful before “fixingâ€￾ our mistakes and probably use the due process of law in doing so.

[E_Page]

"The client might even remember where they were, and turn you in for “disturbing” his monuments!"

That's why we don't do so in the vacuum of our own decision process. At the very least, the client needs to be informed. Depending upon the circumstances, it is the client's decision and our available options will be within the bounds (no pun intended) of the client's wishes.

[goodgps]

"don't do so in the vaccum of our own . . . "

Most clients are very forgiving when we own up to a simple human error.
A bad coordinate, a bad angle etc. they will understand,

But I do totally agree with gromatici regarding post review of set points verses intended positions. With all of this new tchnology, we sould be able to do a QC

Homer Banks once said "if you dont have time to let the compass needle settle, you don't have time to be a surveyor"

To avoid these situations .. . take time to do a QC.

off the subject I know, but we are all learning right ?