California Surveyors Forums

Did they forget 6731.1?
You learn in civil engineering that a structure is only as good as its foundation.
Same applies to design, enter the site plan per CBC.

It will be interesting when the discussion turns to real property, what it means to own property, how you define the limits of what you own, and how the history of the USA is founded on the idea of owning real property.

California is a good place to start. Commies will commie.

See attached.

Well we have an update on this case. On October 18, 2022 Mr. Crownholm and his attorneys filed Mr. Crownholm's Declaration in Support of His Motion for Preliminary Injunction. I have attached for the file for everyone to read.

In doing a bit more digging I have found that the snowball has started to roll down the hill for Mr. Crownholm. Last month the Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation has ordered that Mr. Crownholm and Mysiteplan.com cease-and-desist from offering their services in the State of Illinois (See Page 3 of 19).

This is an excellent example of why CLSA needs to intervene.

Mike,

It looks like State CLSA is well aware of the case and is following closely according to the most recent eNewsletter. Warren wrote about it in his "Message from the President".

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/You ... D8c8wYfM7c

Yes, thanks.

That being said, CLSA needs to stand up and speak up.

Looks like GIS/URISA folks are going to throw in with him:

"In case others have seen articles relating to this topic. California URISA, URISA_International, California Geographic Information Association, and Esri are all taking an active interest in this case and will call upon our membership when the time and action is appropriate.

URISA_International's Policy advisory committee is the best place to channel topics and issues such as these, as they hold the collective knowledge of Geospatial policy and advocacy throughout the nation!"

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/cal-uris ... er_desktop

This issue has been an area of concern for a long time for GIS folks. They are seeking entry into licensing and they feel the best way to get there is to associate themselves with the surveyor/geomatic profession as opposed to creating a separate discipline. They have successfully altered the public impression of what constitutes "mapping," with a calculated goal to carve this out as a path to licensure.

Regrettably, too many surveyors are apathetic, with no interest in protecting the profession. Many have given up GIS, GPS, and now the determination of cadastral lines. Alas, we are witnessing the extinction of a once, important profession.

RIP land surveying.

mpallamary wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:13 am This issue has been an area of concern for a long time for GIS folks. They are seeking entry into licensing and they feel the best way to get there is to associate themselves with the surveyor/geomatic profession as opposed to creating a separate discipline. They have successfully altered the public impression of what constitutes "mapping," with a calculated goal to carve this out as a path to licensure.

Regrettably, too many surveyors are apathetic, with no interest in protecting the profession. Many have given up GIS, GPS, and now the determination of cadastral lines. Alas, we are witnessing the extinction of a once, important profession.

RIP land surveying.

We're not all going down without a fight.

Excellent!

For what it is worth, Mr. Crownholm and Mysiteplan.com were just issued a Cease and Desist Letter from the State Licensing Board of Illinois. Upon a public records request, see the issued citation.

Cool!

bryanmundia wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:39 pm For what it is worth, Mr. Crownholm and Mysiteplan.com were just issued a Cease and Desist Letter from the State Licensing Board of Illinois. Upon a public records request, see the issued citation.

Mundia Response Letter-State of Illinois.pdf

Haven't been tracking this as closely as others but has CLSA reached out to other state professional associations to see if they have also pursued complaints with their state boards?

We have, through NSPS. It turns out that the lead law firm in this suit (Institute for Justice) has been involved in similar suits throughout the country toward the same end for a number of other regulated professions as well.

Warren Smith wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:28 pm We have, through NSPS. It turns out that the lead law firm in this suit (Institute for Justice) has been involved in similar suits throughout the country toward the same end for a number of other regulated professions as well.

Yes, you can see their complete case list https://ij.org/cases/all-cases/

The Institute is one of my clients. I am not sure where they went wrong on this one.

This one is interesting:
https://ij.org/case/mississippi-mapping/

Carl Baca just wrote a great article on site plans and the case of Ryan Crownholm v. BPELSG, you can read it here: https://amerisurv.com/2022/12/04/bad-ba ... ite-plans/

I have been following this case closely and there is a trail hearing set for 1:30pm on January 17th to hear arguments for a Motion to Dismiss filed by the Board's attorney. I would encourage anyone who is interested to call in to the Public Access number which is 888-557-8511, the access code is 9683466#

They are #19 on the list for the day with the afternoon session starting with #11. I would expect to hear some very interesting arguments from boths sides.

If anyone is interested in any of the court documents, I have been downloading them as they have been coming available via Unicourt. Please message me and I would be happy to send you everything I have.

Happy Holidays to all and stay safe!

Might be interesting for anyone in the area to attend the California Sign Association January meeting which will be held on January 12, 2023. Their guest speaker is none other than Ryan Crownholm, the individual who filed a suit against the Board for his Site Plan business, mysiteplan.com

Here is the link to register for the meeting:

https://www.calsign.org/wp-content/uplo ... 2-2023.pdf

Great stuff, Brain! Thanks for keeping on top of this.

As the CEAC Surveyor's Committee Vice Chair, I am pushing on that front, as well.

Perhaps one way to handle the mess is to recognize that there are instances when a boundary survey is NOT needed for a Site Plan. Perhaps a simple checklist for those situations could be developed. As I have learned from 28 years on the CLSA Leg Comm, there is no one-size-fits-all solution that ever fits everyone. But, it's worth a try.

It would be nice for a surveyor or planner to attend and share some horror stories about people relying on their work product!

Way to dog this, Bryan

hellsangle wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:48 am It would be nice for a surveyor or planner to attend and share some horror stories about people relying on their work product!

Way to dog this, Bryan

I just want to sit in the back and fire off questions to see how he responds. The cat is out of the bag if you have read the complaint/citation that the Board prepared in that I was the one who filed the complaint against this guy as the Board did include my name in it.

Might be interesting to show up and shake the hand of the alleged criminal behind this dumpster fire of a court case.

On another note, as a profession, this is our chance to stand up against people like Mr. Crownholm. If we had a community of surveyors attending this meeting it would be a great showing of solidarity in standing up for what is right both in the eyes of the law as well as with the professional community.

I just emailed the California Sign Association asking if I can provide my expertise as a Professional Land Surveyor in explaining why Mr. Crownholm was issued a citation and offered my help in guiding these members on how they can still prepare site plans without stepping over the line into the practice of surveying.

I will keep you all informed as to what the associations response is to my email.