California Surveyors Forums

I definitely fall in the camp that a description/exhibit is one document, IF appropriately labeled & cross referenced.

BUT, due to something I encountered just this morning, I'm seeing the value of stamping and signing both. Some months back, I had provided a description to our right-of-way division for an easement acquisition that I thought would simply be attached to the easement deed. Well, someone must have gone to our engineering division and got one of the Cad guys to draft up an exhibit to accompany it, unbeknownst to me, because I ran across a recorded version of the easement deed this morning. The exhibit contained errors and inconsistencies with my description (nothing major, just annoying and avoidable little things). When I do exhibits, or have them prepared under my direction, I ensure the documents have proper cross-referencing and are consistent. I add a caveat that the description is to be held as controlling over the exhibit in the event of conflicts between the two. And I have in some cases stamped/signed the exhibit. In this case the exhibit was obviously not stamped/signed by me because it was not created nor reviewed by me, but one doesn't know that by looking at it.

Because I work for an agency, these things may be more likely to happen than to a sole prorietor or smaller operation. So I've got some right-of-way people and some engineers to train regarding exhibits. And to reel in control over these, I'm going to insist on signing/stamping them so accountability can be ensured.

Dave Ryan,
Humboldt County

This entire conversation sounds as if it may be concerning items for our County Recorders to consider:

If a proposed recorded document is not properly referenced, does a procedure exist for that document to be rejected by the clerk?

If someone records an illegitimate record by mistake then I suppose a certificate of correction may be in order. While we have all seen many suspect legal descriptions pasted into deeds, the document standards seem to be rising overall.

In my opinion, educating or establishing policy for our local clerks and recorders and real estate attorneys may be more effective than a few of us choosing to add redundant ink to some of the plats to make them appear more official. Would any layman understand that an unsealed second page of an exhibit is an illegitimate document? I tend to agree with the fellow who said "We can't be responsible for how someone might use or misuse pieces of our products."

The big question in my mind is:

Is the recording of documents our utmost goal or is it a cursory obligation that we meet on the way to fulfilling our contracts?

Many of our clients don't care if anything gets recorded, they just want to know where the corner is so they can build the fence...

Are we producing documents for our clients or for any layman that may happen to pick them up down line? If they are for the clients then I feel that our priority should be to honor their values to the extent that we are in compliance with state law.

Most of our clients highest value is their budget. Clarifying every aspect to the point that a seven year old can interpret the document tends to inflate costs. Creating a policy to require something like this in all instances would seem to me to be an abuse of power.

Darth Vader wrote:Do any of you see the description recorded as a separate document from the plat? Does it happen on a regular basis? I have plenty of recorded easements and grants to public agencies that the description and plat are recorded as one instrument. I looked through my files and cant find any that the description was in a separate document from the plat. So why would the board require two signatures for one recorded document? It certainly is not the way I read the law.

8761(d) & If the land surveying document has multiple pages or sheets, the signature, seal or stamp, and date of signing and sealing or stamping shall appear, at a minimum, on the title sheet, cover sheet or page, or signature sheet, unless otherwise required by law.

To say that the legal and plat are one document because they are recorded together is not accurate. That's like saying that the offer with owner's signature, the beneficiary subordination, and government acceptance are all land surveying documents because they recorded together with the legals.

Having just stamped/signed a legal and plat today (Exhibit A and B, respectively), I am astonished at the continuation of this thread. Each one requires a stamp and signature. Seems obvious and in keeping with the PLS Act to me. The Board weighed in on this too and concurred and why argue ... what is to be gained by us as professionals by requiring fewer documents to be stamped/signed?

btaylor wrote:For me it is about the space needed.

Sometimes there is plently of space but I prefer not to have a stamp take up room on a plat. I dislike putting too much clutter within the parcel being drawn up, and that can be the only place to fit the stamp so it does not cover lines or courses.

Oh Bryan, I have seen and reviewed a number of your maps and you my friend go over and beyond to fill up space on your maps with additional ties and information. You take it upon yourself to fill up the map with much more information than a number of other surveyors, so I can see where it is hard to find space for you to include your stamp, lol.

Keep up the good work!

And those were 18"x26". Imagine 8-1/2"x11". Oh the humanity!