Small offsets to property corners Yes or No?

[PipeSetter]

Ive noticed an increase in surveyors setting 1' and 2' offsets for property
corners. Am I the only one who disagrees with this practice?
I know why they do it, but why not set the real corner and then a
witness line for backup/fence construction etc. A pipe this close to a corner is bound to be mistaken for the true corner by future parties.
anyone ?

sample below (map from this year)
[ATTACH]1551[/ATTACH]

[Jim Frame]

I avoid offsets to rear corners when I can, but there are times when it's not practical to mark the actual corner. The three most common situations I encounter are:

1. The corner is occupied by an unstable fence post. Setting anything (e.g. nail and tag) in the post is not going to meet the standards for stability and durability.

2. The corner lands in an improvement that the owner (either my client or the adjoiner) doesn't want defaced.

3. The corner lands on the adjoiner's side of the fence, and either my client, the adjoiner or both don't want me mucking around there.

In all of the above situations -- which are usually backyard conditions -- I'll generally default to an offset or double-offset.

With regard to front yard corners, I actually favor even-foot projections into concrete improvements. I find those both more durable and easier to recover than a pipe or rebar at the corner.

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[PipeSetter]

Yes, since fences are everywhere I know whey these surveyors are setting
these offsets.
my question is WHY 1' or 2' this is too close, the point
can easily be mistaken for a true corner.
Its really a discussion of the correct distance.
I keep witness stakes 5'-10' away for this reason.

[Jim Frame]

my question is WHY 1' or 2'

Two reasons:

1. The closer the offset monument is to the corner, the easier it is to pull the offset to the line. Pulling a 10' offset in a residential landscaping situation often can't be done without removing vegetation. The whole point of monumenting the parcel is to give the owner or his agent something in the ground that he can use to find the lines; the more easily used it is, the better.

2. Areas close to fence corners are generally less likely to be disturbed by maintenance or construction activity. A monument sitting way out in a yard is a sitting duck for disturbance or removal by a careless or ignorant worker or owner.

Setting monuments on small offsets -- when I have to offset at all -- doesn't bother me much. There's always a paper record (ROS or CR) documenting what was set and its relationship to the corner. And in the residential lots I encounter, a 1-foot offset is so large compared to the uncertainties of corner location introduced by external evidence that no surveyor would ever mistake the offset mark for a corner mark. A lay person might, but then a lay person always surveys at his own peril.

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[btaylor]

Pipe - I definitely see what you are saying, but I take Jim's approach as well. You tend to have to set offsets a lot of times. It is a disservice to set actual corners since it will generally mean a tag on a fence post that will get destroyed.

Sometimes I set both. It depends on what is happening, and how well things are communicated with the owner (i.e. if the owner actually lives there, the entire site is a construction zone, there is fence installer working immediately after the marks are set, stuff like that. )

Like Jim, I also prefer setting things in concrete on extensions - but that also depends on what is happening. Some cities require new sidewalk at the end of construction, so I have learned in some cases there is almost nothing that can be done lately but set the marks and make sure you have reference marks on the ROS map to propagate things in the event all is destroyed.

[MikeTurnrose]

Generally I agree with Bryan and Jim on this practice. I think as long as you document correctly on a map what you did, it's ok. However, I try to avoid the 1 to 2 foot offset thing. I try to set points on sideline at 5 feet from the corner if possible. Many of the places I work (older residential areas) already have a 6 fence around the property (some with a 2 foot high lattice on top for a total of eight feet), so setting something on top of the fence is unpractical, difficult and even dangerous (falling off ladder), etc.

[goodgps]

This gives me an Idea . . .

I'm wondering if a tag can be ordered that also has "Witness corner" marked on it.

[E_Page]

I've set offsets several times if the actual corner is at a location at which it is either impossible or impractical to set a monument.

Attached is an example of a corner I marked with 5' offsets because the base of an old fence post occupied the actual corner.

One file is a portion of the filed RS. Sorry for the grainy quality.

The other is how I marked the caps, which were something like 1" or 1-1/2" brass set on 1" galvanized pipe. Just for GoodGPS, I used a stamp set, didn't have to order them marked that way. ;-)

[bruce hall]

Lovely. Lovely. Lovely.

[land butcher]

I like it.