Researching in Sonoma Co (CA)

BobKrohn · Post by **BobKrohn** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:37 pm

I am trying to research a lot in Sonoma County.
I live in Los Angeles area.
Have just found that Sonoma Co has no online research or online scanned maps/records. Recorder's Office people were not much help.
In fact their "website" states that having record documents available online is a violation of law. Better tell that to LA and Orange Counties.

Any ideas other than driving hundreds of miles to Santa Rosa or hiring a local?

Thank You

MFORD · Post by **MFORD** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:09 pm

BobKrohn
First American Title has a service (for a subscription fee) that allows you to get copies of deeds, AP maps and recorded maps. Shot of that there isn't any way to get copies of recorded maps and deeds frre from Sonpma CO. Up here in the wine country we're not as sophisticated in some things as LA and O.C., but look on the bright side we're not in LA or O.C.

If you send me the parcel, info I'll help you out with an hour of research pro bono, using my in house resources. Any thing more than that yo may have to make that awful trip to paradise.

hellsangle · Post by **hellsangle** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:27 am

Could it be possible . . . that the County of Sonoma respects copyright laws? One should investigate that with County Counsel or a competent copyright attorney.

Ask the Surveyor's Office why Corner Records are not on line. (Hint: Copyright)

â€œIf everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.â€ Geo. S. Patton

Phil - Sonoma

MFORD · Post by **MFORD** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:03 am

Hellsangel (who doesn’t even own a motorcycle)
“Could it be possible . . . that the County of Sonoma respects copyright laws? One should investigate that with County Counsel or a competent copyright attorney.”
Phil, in your limited research of the copyright laws did you skip over the part about how works in the public domain are not copyrightable? Recorded deeds and maps reside in the public domain. How is it that private companies (First American title, Court House Direct) can purchase copies of deeds and maps and then resell them? Do you suppose the attorneys for those companies also skipped over that part of the copyright law? If recorded maps and deeds enjoy copyright protection the county recorders couldn’t provide copies to anyone without permission from the author. The next time you submit a ROS to the county surveyor for review, omit sending copies of the supporting data and claim the information is copyright protected. After all if you’re not the holder of the copyright for those maps and deeds you’re not allowed to disseminate copies without permission.
According to the former deputy recorder, the County of Sonoma doesn’t provide online access to deeds and maps mostly due to budget constraints and partly due to privacy laws. Apparently the recorder’s office doesn’t have the resources to separate private information from public information where deeds are concerned. Maps are provided on disk for a nominal fee to cover the actual cost creating the disk.

MFORD · Post by **MFORD** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:07 am

Hellsangel:
[“Could it be possible . . . that the County of Sonoma respects copyright laws? One should investigate that with County Counsel or a competent copyright attorney.”]

Phil, in your limited research of the copyright laws did you skip over the part about how works in the public domain are not copyrightable? Recorded deeds and maps reside in the public domain. How is it that private companies (First American title, Court House Direct) can purchase copies of deeds and maps and then resell them? Do you suppose the attorneys for those companies also skipped over that part of the copyright law? If recorded maps and deeds enjoy copyright protection the county recorders couldn’t provide copies to anyone without permission from the author. The next time you submit a ROS to the county surveyor for review, omit sending copies of the supporting data and claim the information is copyright protected. After all if you’re not the holder of the copyright for those maps and deeds you’re not allowed to disseminate copies without permission.

According to the former deputy county recorder, the County of Sonoma doesn’t provide online access to deeds and maps mostly due to budget constraints and partly due to privacy laws. Apparently the recorder’s office doesn’t have the resources to separate private information from public information where deeds are concerned to be able to provide on line access. Maps are provided on disk for a nominal fee to cover the actual cost creating the disk.

MFORD · Post by **MFORD** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:09 am

Prely posted twice. Don't know how that happend?

MFORD · Post by **MFORD** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:23 am

Hellsangel

[“Ask the Surveyor's Office why Corner Records are not on line. (Hint: Copyright)"]

Ask the Marin County Surveyor why their corner records are available on line? Ask why maps and corner records are available on line at many of the other county surveyor’s and recorder’s offices? (Hint: no copyright protection for public domain records)

Stephen Johnson · Post by **Stephen Johnson** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:35 pm

Anthony Maffia · Post by **Anthony Maffia** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:47 pm

Maybe 10 years or so ago, the state changed the law to prohibit online access to personal public records (birth certificates mainly, I don't know if marriage licenses were included also.) That caused all the recorders to halt all online efforts, until they figured things out. Now, it is a funds available problem, and if there aren't any funds, why bother revisiting the question?

I think that for surveyors, all maps / corner records / benchmark data sheets should be available online at no charge. If that goal was approved, then funds could be found, donated, or even as part of monument preservation (answers the question, are there any monuments in this street / block intersection that I should look out for?)

hellsangle · Post by **hellsangle** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:48 am

Oooops.
When things were slower . . . I had suggested that Corner Records be placed on line (like Marin County) and was willing to volunteer to scan 'em, etc . . . but someone said they were told that it was copyrighted material . . . so that was where Silly Philly was comin' from . . . my bad

Stephen Johnson · Post by **Stephen Johnson** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:59 am

hellsangle wrote:Oooops.
When things were slower . . . I had suggested that Corner Records be placed on line (like Marin County) and was willing to volunteer to scan 'em, etc . . . but someone said they were told that it was copyrighted material . . . so that was where Silly Philly was comin' from . . . my bad

If that is the worst mistake you ever make, you are doing quite well.

BobKrohn · Post by **BobKrohn** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:26 pm

MFORD wrote:BobKrohn If you send me the parcel, info I'll help you out with an hour of research pro bono, using my in house resources. Any thing more than that yo may have to make that awful trip to paradise.

I sent you a PM

land butcher · Post by **land butcher** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:48 pm

I think the agencies just have to be educated to the fact that in the long run it is cheaper for them to scan and put the maps, etc on line than having to have employees pull the files and make copies as they have in the past.

LS_8750 · Post by **LS_8750** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:10 pm

How does Sonoma County handle PRA requests for recorded maps, corner records, etc.?

LA Stevens · Post by **LA Stevens** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:11 pm

Clark,

Attached is the list from the County Surveyors office for research. I'm not certain what the cost is now from the recorders office, but they do have the maps on CD. From what I remember, it was reasonable.

Also the Sonoma CLSA website has a list of surveyors and what historical archives they have.

Good luck!

BobKrohn · Post by **BobKrohn** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:33 am

Hey, thanks for posting this guide.
If it turns out that I get talked into going up there I will be better prepared.
It's my cousin's Mother who owns the lot.
I was asked if I could come up with an eyeball check for existing corners.
If they decide to have someone look at this thing, I'll drop your name.
Have Fun, Bob

MFORD · Post by **MFORD** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:35 am

Bob,
I never received the PM you sent me nor did I get a response from my private message to you on this forum. If you attach the PM to a post or give me the APN, my offer still stands. The research could be fairly simple and will save a long drive, but as they say, sometimes the destination is just an excuse for the journey.

Clark - I'm not sure how our County Surveyors office handles PRA requests. I've never had an occasion to file one. Researching Corner Records takes a little doing. Although there is an index which has streamlined the process, the best way is to visit the CS office where a hard copy map is kept up to date with a reference number. The CRs are kept in a book which you request and copy the pages you need. The local CLSA chapter is currently working with CS to get the CRs scanned and indexed in PDF format. The disk(s) will be available to purchase. All the details haven't been worked out.

Mike Ford
Sonoma County

California Surveyors Forums